Quote: “We need people to be curious enough about our topic for them to lean in, decide to hire you, decide to attend your session and decide to keep listening when you start talking.” Tamsen Webster
We are always talking about creating the epic keynote, improving upon what you already have and how it should keep evolving to make it even better. On this episode of The Wealthy Speaker Show, we’re privileged to have the amazing Tamsen Webster join us to share her expertise on what it takes to create your epic keynote!
As a professional “Idea Whisperer,” Tamsen helps people find, build, and tell the stories of their ideas. She combined 20 years in brand and message strategy with four years as a TEDx Executive Producer to create The Red Thread®, a simple way to change how people see…and what they do as a result. (Though, as she’ll tell you, everything she knows about people, speaking, and change, she learned at Weight Watchers.)
Read Full Transcript
1
00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:25.840
Jane Atkinson: So welcome everyone to the wealthy Speaker schools, master's class. We are so lucky to have ten singing Webster in the house. Welcome, Tansen. Hello! Hello! Well, thank you so much for having me and for sharing your awesome group with me. Uh, we're here to talk epic keynote and tell everybody before we start like, What do you do in your day to day life?
2
00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:48.290
Tamsen Webster: So in my day to day life I like to say i'm an English to English Translator: Um: Essentially, what I mean by that is, if I could. I've spent about twenty five years now as a brand message and positioning person. Uh, and so basically helping people translate their ideas into language and concepts that anyone can understand and be motivated to act on.
3
00:00:48.300 --> 00:01:16.880
Jane Atkinson: You know, Don't, you think we have this saying over here at the wealthy Speaker school that clarity equals confidence When you nail that kind of thing down, when you really get crystal clear on what you're selling. It's a total game changer in your business completely. I because not only do you have that confidence you have this. You have this kind of core message, this core story, that then you can start to tell other versions of it. It. It becomes easier to figure out
4
00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:37.399
Jane Atkinson: like what examples you can do, and all the different places you can apply it. So it's it is. It is absolutely game changing. We're hundred percent in agreement on that. Uh welcome, Tanya! Welcome! I think it's Deborah Welcome, Deborah. So happy to have Caroline and Kelly and Matthew on the line with us as well. Now, Here's what we're gonna do today.
5
00:01:37.430 --> 00:02:02.760
Jane Atkinson: We're going to record a segment for the school. We'll get that going, and then we're going to open up for you all for Q. A. If you have a question in the moment, go ahead and put it in the chat. I've got my chat up, and I can um see if we could slip it in there before we stop. But don't worry. You will get all your questions answered If you're with us. Live here today. Now, uh Tansen, your book is called
6
00:02:02.770 --> 00:02:32.749
Tamsen Webster: Is this right? Find your red thread. It is. Find your red thread. Make your big ideas irresistible. So good. What a great, what a great title! And it's so compelling! It has me leaning in with curiosity, which is exactly what we want our language to do. Tell everybody what finding a red thread is about finding the story that people will tell themselves about your idea. And that's important because oftentimes, when i'm working with the speakers,
7
00:02:32.760 --> 00:02:54.089
Tamsen Webster: thought leaders, all sorts of folks that have these big, beautiful ideas that can really change the world, even if that's just one person we tend to focus on what we know is awesome about the idea and what we want to say about it. And we do that sometimes to the inclusion of realizing what actually somebody needs to hear in our idea in order for it to make sense and being compelling to them.
8
00:02:54.100 --> 00:03:23.779
Tamsen Webster: Uh, but the book is really based on this this idea, this fact, actually, that every decision that we make is humans is based on a story that we tell ourselves. And so the whole idea of the book is like. Well, since someone's going to create a story to process, why your idea does or doesn't make sense, anyway. Why, Don't. We start with their story because that's going to have all the things they need to hear in order to make sure it makes sense. So the idea kind of, uh what we talk about in the school is we make it about them.
9
00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:28.950
Jane Atkinson: Yes, and that way we're kind of uh, maybe
10
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:47.610
Tamsen Webster: managing the narrative, I guess perhaps absolutely. I mean the way another way to think about it is that we are talking about. We are making the case that your audience would make about your idea. And I think a lot of times when we think about our ideas and the and our keynote we're trying to like. We're up there like we're making the case and the challenges like.
11
00:03:47.620 --> 00:04:04.170
Tamsen Webster: When when you do that, you're making the case from the perspective of somebody who is already convinced your idea is right. But your your audience doesn't start there right. They have to make that case for themselves, and so that's what we're building or building their case for your idea, not yours.
12
00:04:04.180 --> 00:04:22.580
Jane Atkinson: And this is the path to epic keynote when you can kind of overcome their objections to your idea, you know. Just lay it out there. You're probably thinking, da da da, da, da. Now you're actually showing them that you do understand them. So
13
00:04:22.590 --> 00:04:31.900
Jane Atkinson: okay, get a pen and paper out everybody because it's gonna go deep on this. Um welcome, Shawn. Happy to have you on the line. So
14
00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:41.309
Jane Atkinson: step number one to kind of finding this red thread process. Go ahead and tell us what that is.
15
00:04:41.320 --> 00:05:11.300
Tamsen Webster: So it all needs to start with figuring out what question your audience is already asking for which your idea is an answer. So there's there's a lot packed into that. So let me let me unpack it a little bit. So first one is a question your audience is already asking. So one way to think about this, of course, is the is the famous problem that we're all asked to say like, What problem do you saw? What problem are you solving for them? And so a lot of times? This is exactly the problem that you're
16
00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:30.029
Tamsen Webster: your audience knows they have It's a known problem. Okay? Um, I like to frame it as a question. They're already asking, because, frankly, a lot of the folks that I've worked with work for, speak to, et cetera. They're not really solving a problem like I spent eight years in performing arts and visual arts, and you know they're not,
17
00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:46.479
Tamsen Webster: you know. You see him isn't solving a problem, and they're like, Oh, I don't know about this, but there are questions that people ask about the arts say, or about higher education that are still unanswered. How do I find the right fit for my student right to make sure that they're going to find a place. They succeed.
18
00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:58.490
Tamsen Webster: So anchoring that question and uh anchoring your keynote and a question they're already asking is the first big step. So let me stop there, and i'm sure you've got questions. Because
19
00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:24.269
Tamsen Webster: so the one big problem and the goal. Why don't we run an example of that, maybe with one of your clients, or anything that's speaking related, of course, will be best. Yeah, I mean, I think that so. So if I were to. Well, let's talk about a a a problem that often shows up for speakers right? Which is um my my
20
00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:46.179
Tamsen Webster: audiences. Uh, you know my client is asking me to fit my big, beautiful idea in a teeny, tiny little space, right? And so the question, like, if my audience are speakers that are. They're suffering from that right now. Their question would be, How do I get my big, beautiful idea to fit in a teeny tiny space without losing any of its power.
21
00:06:46.190 --> 00:06:54.480
Tamsen Webster: Because so you see what I mean where I'm not. I'm not so. Here's a thing. The reason why this is so important is because
22
00:06:54.490 --> 00:07:22.820
Tamsen Webster: you know one of the words you used earlier, Jane was curiosity. We need people to be curious enough about our topic for them to lean in, decide to hire. You, decide to attend your session, to decide to keep listening. Once you start talking right, and the thing we have to understand about curiosity. And this is so interesting is that it's actually a curve. It's an upside down. You. I want you to think of it that way. Oh, okay. And so.
23
00:07:22.830 --> 00:07:39.050
Tamsen Webster: Yeah. And And the reason why this is important is that a lot of times our first instinct, when we think about how do we make our idea like, How do we create curiosity with our content is that we think it. It's about being remarkable about being different,
24
00:07:39.110 --> 00:07:56.970
Tamsen Webster: you know, famously like Seth go in the marketing group talked about being a purple cow like being different enough to be remarkable, and that's not wrong, but we it kind of misses a step, which is people don't care how purple your cow is if they're not already looking for milk.
25
00:07:57.690 --> 00:08:26.950
Tamsen Webster: Do you see what I mean? Like? Someone has to be interested in cows like like in order to buy. They have to be interested in as wild as you want. But if you, if it's the wrong message for the wrong audience. Then it's just not going to connect right. So this comes back to this curve because a very interesting thing happens. So I want you to imagine, like on the X axis. This is about how expert somebody feels about your topic, how much they think they already know. Okay, that's on one level like if it's over here. Not so much over here, more
26
00:08:26.970 --> 00:08:36.529
Tamsen Webster: on this axis is how curious they are to no more like to learn the answer that you're presenting to them.
27
00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:49.139
Tamsen Webster: Alright. Now, remember, I said it was, an it was a curve so over here where somebody doesn't feel very expert in something. Their curiosity is actually negative.
28
00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:56.960
Tamsen Webster: So this is what can happen. So if you're like, I've got a purple, c. And they're like, Why would I care they aren't
29
00:08:56.970 --> 00:09:22.039
Tamsen Webster: that level of mystery. Isn't: Yeah, it's not enough for them to go. Oh, I wonder what Jane is talking about. Let me, you know. Figure out more. It's I I got way too many other things to think about. And oh, by the way, there's this other speaker who it's really clear they're talking about something that I know we need. So i'm just not even going to be. I'm not going to explore right. So that's like that's really important. And then so on the other side.
30
00:09:22.310 --> 00:09:27.180
Tamsen Webster: Another point where it's negative, or someone is so sure they already know the answer
31
00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:43.579
Tamsen Webster: that they're also again negatively curious. So, of course, what we're trying to do with this question is, find that magic middle. And so that's why I suggest we're looking for a question that your audience is already asking for which they don't yet have an answer, and you do
32
00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:57.930
Jane Atkinson: right. That's an important part of it is that you have an answer, and they don't yet know the answer. And so when what they want it right, yeah, they want it when we're talking about uh uh
33
00:09:57.940 --> 00:10:13.169
Tamsen Webster: um, you're selling water to thirsty people. Yes, exactly exactly. And a lot of times when i'm working with clients on this they're like. Yes, but this question isn't sexy, and i'm like not to you. It isn't, but to them
34
00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:29.660
Tamsen Webster: who, like they don't have this answer yet, like they don't know how to to put their content into a teeny tiny space, or your client, like doesn't know how to keep their team engaged, or you know your client doesn't know how to make and maintain transformational change, but they want to right, and they've been struggling with it.
35
00:10:29.670 --> 00:10:44.279
Tamsen Webster: That is an extraordinarily sexy question to them. It's, you know it, and it pops them right into the middle, because they know enough to know that they that that's a question they have, but they don't know the answer. So you haven't like tipped it over. You got them.
36
00:10:44.290 --> 00:11:12.950
Jane Atkinson: This is so good,
37
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:24.590
Tamsen Webster: and that's why it's over to your marketing as well, too. Yeah, exactly. And so sometimes, you know. And so one of the ways. So a couple of ways to think about finding this one is
38
00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:39.499
Tamsen Webster: a lot of times when i'm working with clients on this. They're like, but that's the wrong question. Yeah, Great start with the wrong question, because that's your your whole point of your keynote is to get them to ask a different question by the end of it, to say,
39
00:11:39.820 --> 00:11:57.579
Tamsen Webster: Oh, actually, okay, It's not that that's like, you know. It's not that it's the wrong question, and that's you know. I still need that answer. But i'm gonna get a much more powerful result if I do this instead. Right. So that's it. Can come fairly early on like in the
40
00:11:57.590 --> 00:12:14.099
Tamsen Webster: it. It should be so. I like to talk about when i'm helping people craft the beginnings of their their talk. I mean, I I call it a a hot open, which a hot open is to start right with that question. Who here wants to raise the probability of success of their sales calls.
41
00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:44.100
Tamsen Webster: Oh, yeah, that's good. Okay, let's go right. Yeah, you're like, I do, all right. Super, that's a hot open. You could just start with that question. Okay, uh, Caroline, saying, I have this problem with creativity. People think i'm not creative. So they don't have the curiosity, so she needs a question. She needs a question for which the answer is creativity. But they're talking about it something else. So they may be saying, You know, How do we stay competitive in the marketplace?
42
00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:58.339
Tamsen Webster: How do we do that? So you're looking for something that you know. The answer is creat creativity, but they don't so it it's not about a bait and switch it's getting them to understand and walking them through, that you may not have thought this was the answer,
43
00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:02.719
Tamsen Webster: but actually because of the case that you're making, it actually is.
44
00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:21.780
Jane Atkinson: And with Caroline situation, creativity can be the answer to a lot of things. So one of the things we try to narrow is what is the problem you're really helping solve with creativity, so that helps get focused, too, and that might help come to the question. Okay, yes,
45
00:13:21.790 --> 00:13:34.110
Jane Atkinson: this is a little much. I have Covid, you guys. So this is my respect. Your This is, I know how hard it is to make the brain work after Covid. So the last call of the day for me, I tell you. Okay.
46
00:13:34.120 --> 00:14:03.330
Tamsen Webster: So First, we want to anchor your keynote in a great question. We love that. Tell us what number two is. Alright, well, one like one, one a one like one. B. Let me just add that is it. Also, I just want to make a case for making sure that your keynote has one big answer to that. Not three or five or seven, because people have one big question. They want one big answer, and your three or five or seven things should be able to roll up into that answer, but they need to bit, walk away and go
47
00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:33.329
Tamsen Webster: If I really want right to like. Keep my team engaged. I need to do this one big thing, and it has these three parts. Right? Okay, Okay, Gotcha. That's really good. And you know it keeps us coming back to focus again and again and again, right, and it keeps it from being feeling overwhelming, and it keeps us. It keeps. It helps You make sure that your keynote is more likely to create an actual impact with your audio,
48
00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:52.080
Tamsen Webster: so that your clients can see a return. Because if you're offering someone three or five or seven answers to their question. They're going to suffer from what's known as the paradox of Choice, which is, you give people too many options, and they take none of them, and so they're like. Oh, that's interesting. It's informative, and they walk away doing nothing different.
49
00:14:52.090 --> 00:15:03.370
Jane Atkinson: That's why um the simplest keynote. I've talked a lot about Mel Robbins with her five second rule. I saw a male speak free five second rule,
50
00:15:03.670 --> 00:15:08.269
Tamsen Webster: and I don't remember what she talked about because it was one big thing. Yeah,
51
00:15:08.290 --> 00:15:24.290
Jane Atkinson: when she brought it down to it. And basically the five second rule is, just get off your button. Do something right? That's That's the technique for getting off your button doing something. Yeah, exactly. Oh, simple. It's just one thing. And I think that we all think Okay,
52
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:43.750
Jane Atkinson: i'm going down a little bit of a rabbit hole. Why do we all think that more is more talk, a bit less is more. And how this simplifying of your idea can be so helpful.
53
00:15:43.760 --> 00:16:13.110
Tamsen Webster: And so you know you. You've got an audience filled with smart, capable, good people. But anytime any human is faced with new information. It takes a lot of processing power for us to figure out what that person is saying, because it's all new right. So the issue with putting a whole bunch of stuff in is that you're overwhelming that processing power. And and what happens is our brains Just shut it down, and we just go. Whoa! That's too much. I can't take it.
54
00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:32.270
Tamsen Webster: And so. But if you've got one thing and one thing that you've hooked them with something that you know they want. It's like a persistent irritant for them. Not having this question answered, or it's an urgent thing that they've got to solve. Then, and you keep on that one thing, and you give them one big answer. It just
55
00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:50.270
Jane Atkinson: just get raises the probability that they are going to truly hear, truly understand, agree, and then therefore act on that idea for you. Oh, so good, Caroline! We're going to come back to that question when we open up for Q. A. I hope you'll come on camera. Okay.
56
00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:54.250
Jane Atkinson: So step number two. We've got three steps for you today.
57
00:16:54.550 --> 00:17:14.089
Tamsen Webster: Um. Talk about re revealing a deep, a deeper problem or attention. So to some extent it's probably quite similar to what you're talking about. Um, Jane, when you're saying that you help people like what? What problem you really solving to help narrow it down, Because, you know, creativity is,
58
00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:17.710
Tamsen Webster: can solve a whole bunch of different things, for instance. So
59
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:31.630
Tamsen Webster: the let me explain kind of what happens first, and then we could kind of come back to it. And what happens is a lot of times. We say you've got this problem. A keynote is set up this way where you've got this problem. I've got this solution.
60
00:17:32.060 --> 00:17:44.969
Tamsen Webster: Let me explain it to you right, and we hope that just by giving problem solution, which I know is a very traditional format. Um, it's very consistent. And what people are, you know tell us about how to build a keynote.
61
00:17:45.020 --> 00:17:47.770
Tamsen Webster: So do you need a problem in solution?
62
00:17:47.790 --> 00:18:04.769
Tamsen Webster: Yes, you do. But remember what I said earlier, which is every decision, has a story, it we tell ourselves a story. It's not necessarily once upon a time story, but we say, Oh, this is right, because this is right, or this happens because this happens.
63
00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:30.100
Tamsen Webster: And what happens if you only give people problem and solution, You're essentially just giving them the beginning and the end of a story. Oh, interesting! So think of it this way, like if I were to tell you the story of Star Wars, as there was this Brady Kid, named Luke, who wanted to be a pilot, and he ended up defeating the dark side by Sh! Like destroying the guest desk star and save the galaxy. You're like,
64
00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:33.250
Tamsen Webster: Okay. But
65
00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:41.209
Tamsen Webster: ha! How did you get there right? So what actually needs to happen in people's mind is to say, okay, I've got this question:
66
00:18:41.220 --> 00:19:01.829
Tamsen Webster: How can I keep my team engaged at work right? And um or let's let's use one from from one of my clients, Ted, Ma and his question that we worked on was, you know. How can I help my team? My sales team reach their full potential? Okay. Question. That managers often are asking. I can see potential. They're not there yet. How do we get there?
67
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:19.529
Tamsen Webster: And what we have to do is to say, Now, you're like Again, your audience has this question, which means by and large they have been trying to answer it for themselves. Right? So you can't go like Remember that other side of the negative curiosity. You can't say well
68
00:19:19.570 --> 00:19:34.769
Tamsen Webster: like present that as if it's like a new question that no one's ever thought of, because they're like dude. I've got this question no way. But you have to explain what I mean by a deeper problem is the reason why that problem is so difficult to solve.
69
00:19:34.780 --> 00:19:50.639
Tamsen Webster: Oh, good. So you see what I mean, like you're going that direction. So you're basically saying just, you know, continuing Ted's example, I all right. So why is it hard, so hard for us to get our team to fulfill the potential. And then where where Ted landed was
70
00:19:51.100 --> 00:20:03.079
Tamsen Webster: it was that because right? We are hoping for leaders. But we're training for followers. So there's this tension between what we want and what we're doing,
71
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.869
Tamsen Webster: and we actually have to solve that right in order to get what you want. So it's
72
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:32.210
Tamsen Webster: the reason why I recommend like building this into your keynote is because that's like really the place where you truly start to differentiate yourself from other speakers on the same topic. Because you're basically saying, I say, the reason why you Haven't solved this is this is because there's this other tension going on right that we have to solve first. So we, you said, we have to figure out how do we not
73
00:20:32.520 --> 00:20:39.370
Tamsen Webster: train followers. Right? We have to figure out how we train leaders. How do we do that? Okay? And then you move on from there.
74
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:56.249
Jane Atkinson: They've heard me talk about in the school. Um, one of my clients, Greg Shenkel, who uh focused on leadership first, and then he focused on frontline leadership and manufacturing and and developed this amazing niche in manufacturing.
75
00:20:56.260 --> 00:21:01.329
Jane Atkinson: You get promoted into a leadership position because you're good at your job.
76
00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:21.749
Jane Atkinson: Yes, because you're like you've shown yourself to be a great leader. Usually. Usually It's just You're good at your job. And so you come to the table and you don't have a lot of skills, So that is something that he could talk about. How did you all, you know, get into your leadership positions, and then it's like, Oh, yeah, okay, We
77
00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:25.849
Jane Atkinson: you know, we do need what you're talking about. We do need what you're selling.
78
00:21:26.780 --> 00:21:32.980
Jane Atkinson: Exactly. Exactly. It's probably important, Right?
79
00:21:33.500 --> 00:21:58.609
Tamsen Webster: Yeah, I mean, it's so. I mean, The thing is that by doing that right, remember how we created that curiosity Gap. Okay. I have this question. But I don't have this answer yet. Oh, you're Jane, You're telling me. I'm going to get an answer. And then you say, and not only that here's why we don't have an answer to that yet, because there's actually this deeper problem we have to solve. Now you've like hooked them with another dose of curiosity because it's just like,
80
00:21:58.620 --> 00:22:07.359
Tamsen Webster: Oh, yeah, you're right like That's right like we. We've got this gap now what they're saying, and they're pulling themselves through your keynote,
81
00:22:07.370 --> 00:22:36.219
Jane Atkinson: and the more you know about them, the more you can get to these deeper problems. You know that's really coming in your research. So I think that's really important. And i'm going to circle back and ask you how you do research. Um, But let me just uh come to The third point is including something your audience already believes to create a moment of truth that's really cool.
82
00:22:36.370 --> 00:22:48.319
Tamsen Webster: Yeah. So this is part of what we drop out when we only give people the The The problem in solution is, we drop out an element that's in every story
83
00:22:48.330 --> 00:23:01.130
Tamsen Webster: like that. We tell other people all great stories, and whether that's heroes journey or any other kind, all great stories have this moment right before someone makes the decision to change where they have some kind of realization,
84
00:23:01.370 --> 00:23:04.820
Tamsen Webster: right? And we
85
00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:21.919
Tamsen Webster: I mean, I used to do this, too. We just skip right over it right. And part of the reason why I think we do. That is a again. We remember, I said before, where we we make the case for our idea from the from the point of view of somebody who's already convinced that it's right.
86
00:23:21.930 --> 00:23:43.870
Tamsen Webster: So it actually doesn't occur to us to explain the whole like reasoning behind. Like, Okay, if you want to get your team to fulfill their potential, and you're hoping for leaders in training for followers. Right? What else do we need to know? Like, How do you like? They need some aspect of training for followers, so they need to know why you do, why you do what you do,
87
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:59.719
Tamsen Webster: but they also need to know why you do it that way, and they're not going to understand that unless you give them an extra piece of information. So um, you know. So, for instance, with Ted Ma like we came up with this idea that leadership is learned
88
00:23:59.730 --> 00:24:21.469
Tamsen Webster: right? And and you see that that's a freeze; that a lot of people, or the people who are going to be his like, more more likely to be his clients would agree with It's not something he has to convince them of, and that's really important. Because if you want to get someone to do something new or different. The biggest barrier to that is that it all feels new and different.
89
00:24:21.530 --> 00:24:26.349
Tamsen Webster: But if you can feel, if you can make something new, feel like
90
00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:55.839
Tamsen Webster: just a different new combination of things that are already familiar like Oh, well, because I already want this, and I would agree that i'm already doing that. And I already believe this I hadn't thought of them that way together. But yeah, of course, this makes a new thing. So this element is is a not always easy to find, because we we it. It never occurs to us to say that loud, but it is critic call when it comes to creating a keynote that people can't on here.
91
00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:57.750
Jane Atkinson: Hmm.
92
00:24:57.820 --> 00:25:16.979
Jane Atkinson: People can't on here. I love that. So I always thought that the red line might be similar to a through line. It is, I mean, one hundred percent. Yes, so let's define it. Each of us just to make Sure, we're on this page, so we've called it a phrase that pays.
93
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:20.429
Jane Atkinson: We've called it a through line. Um,
94
00:25:20.590 --> 00:25:21.610
Jane Atkinson: yeah,
95
00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:37.580
Jane Atkinson: there's a lot of different kind of lingo going on about that. But when you can pull in some language at the beginning, and then sprinkle it throughout, like, for instance, the five second rule,
96
00:25:37.590 --> 00:25:47.800
Jane Atkinson: you know she teed it up. What is the five second rule at the beginning of the talk, and then sprinkled by second rule, and you know, and maybe there's a call to action that goes with that. I don't know.
97
00:25:48.390 --> 00:26:02.810
Jane Atkinson: So I met. I might be defining it a little bit differently than you. So Why, I um, i'm thinking through line would look really good on a coffee mug as a reminder to take action.
98
00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:22.179
Tamsen Webster: Okay, it's like Nike's let's just do it right. So I would say that that in my the way I think about it that's half a through line. So for me a through line is both the question and the answer, and that, and it includes both something people want, and the means they don't expect, because
99
00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:51.099
Tamsen Webster: uh, to me, but also when we think about like how through lines are referenced in in story, but also research and a logic. It through line usually talks about like, what is the connecting like, What's the what is the logical progression of ideas? And so I so you can, by finding the pieces of the red thread that I talk about in the book the goal which we've already talked about, The problem which you've talked about, the truth that I've talked about the change which you already know, because that's your idea.
100
00:26:51.110 --> 00:27:00.450
Tamsen Webster: Um. And the action you can distill those down into a through line really easily. So, for instance, just to articulate the difference. So
101
00:27:00.490 --> 00:27:12.999
Tamsen Webster: like Um, Amy cuddy's Ted Talk on power posing right like you could say Power posing is the through line to some extent, but I would say that the the complete through line is your body. Language
102
00:27:13.010 --> 00:27:33.470
Tamsen Webster: embodied in power, Posing may affect, like, maybe, a key to undoing imposter syndrome or overcoming imposter syndrome, like. If you want to overcome impostor syndrome, right? Use your body language to your advantage. To me that is the idea of the keynote. The tool is power posing right. But that
103
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:56.639
Jane Atkinson: that element of this is actually the message of the talk that your body language may help you overcome. Imposter syndrome is the thing that connects everything in that talk together. Yeah. And I think it's so important that you have that glue to come back to and come back to and come back to. And so we take it just that one step further and say, You know um.
104
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:11.730
Jane Atkinson: I am powerful, you know, and I am powerful, might be the phrase that she tease up at the beginning, and then said: And And the idea is that it sends people home like ready to take action. And so if I look at my coffee month,
105
00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:27.450
Jane Atkinson: and it reminds me in the morning I am powerful, and maybe i'm gonna do my pose before I get on my call with whoever I'm gonna talk to. That's the ideas that that that it's a reminder. So I think we have different language for it, but it it's all
106
00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:44.309
Jane Atkinson: important and moves in exactly the same direction. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So let us just ask you one final question, and then we're going to wrap this, and we're going to come to Q. A. Our group. Um! What would you say
107
00:28:44.520 --> 00:28:47.909
Jane Atkinson: in the structure of a keynote
108
00:28:47.920 --> 00:29:16.549
Jane Atkinson: is like ours. Typically some things that you think people miss anything that we haven't covered yet. Is there anything that you know? We know that stories? So So I I always talk to people about balancing the teaching versus stories. How do you talk about balancing the teaching versus I would one hundred percent. So to me, usually, when we talk about story, we're talking about the definition of story. That essentially means an example of something
109
00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:33.540
Tamsen Webster: right like. Let me give you an example like, and we're telling a story either to say, Let me exhibit. Give you an example of when I went through this like. If you're telling like a story of yourself you're like. Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about, or if it's a case, study or some work you do with a client you're using as an example.
110
00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:39.419
Tamsen Webster: We need to make sure that we're always clear with our audience. Of what is it an example of?
111
00:29:39.790 --> 00:30:04.399
Tamsen Webster: And I think Sometimes we miss that. We missed like drawing out for the audience what the lesson of that story, what the point of that story actually is, The point needs to come first, and then the example. Not necessarily so, I, as long as they're both there right. As long as you're saying, you know what. Let me give you this powerful, You know this phrase that pays slow and steady wins the race. Let me tell you a story,
112
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:12.280
Tamsen Webster: and then you're like. Do you see what I mean like, So you can do point, example, point, or you can do. For example, you can do example, point. My point is
113
00:30:12.330 --> 00:30:19.280
Tamsen Webster: just. Never give an example without making sure that the you've explained the point to the audience as well, because
114
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:23.919
Tamsen Webster: you may be sure that your meeting is clear, but
115
00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:28.949
Tamsen Webster: that is probably not the case. So it's a it's, you know. It's a thing that that
116
00:30:29.060 --> 00:30:39.160
Tamsen Webster: scientists and psychologists know is the false consensus effect. It's. We. We tend to believe that everybody sees the world the same way we do, but they don't.
117
00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:52.330
Tamsen Webster: And so, by being clear on what the point of the story is either the one you're about to tell or the one you just told. You are eliminating the chance that someone takes the wrong message out of it.
118
00:30:53.380 --> 00:31:00.090
Jane Atkinson: You know this is why we craft our keynote rather than wing it.
119
00:31:00.100 --> 00:31:29.979
Tamsen Webster: Because then you're not like that. Yeah, yeah. Because if you're not, If So here's the other. There's this. I need to find the the citation again. But there is research that shows that sixty to seventy percent of a story is, gets lost by the fifth or sixth retelling something along those lines. In other words, we lose the words. But what sticks is the idea? So if you're not super clear with your audience on what idea you want them to take away. They're gonna
120
00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:59.119
Tamsen Webster: to walk away with our own idea, and it may not be the one that supports your message, and if it isn't the one that supports your message, that might be why you don't my Sometimes you don't get the reaction or the return on a talk that you're looking for, because you thought you. This was a beautifully clear example of something. But you didn't tell them what it was an example of. And so that's a that. A big thing for me is to make sure that you're always making sure that A. You know the point of a story and B,
121
00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:06.600
Tamsen Webster: that you tell them. Because when you do that, not only are you guaranteeing that the audience understands what? Why, you told that story,
122
00:32:06.740 --> 00:32:32.889
Tamsen Webster: but it also serves as a really good check about whether or not a story belongs in that particular talk or not, because if you can't make it make a point like if you can't draw a lesson that's actually tied to the big through line, the big idea of your talk. It doesn't belong there, and I struggle with with two because I have this like awesome story. It's like it has all the the Harlem hallmarks of a classic signature story, except it had
123
00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:47.529
Tamsen Webster: nothing to do with what I normally talk about. So it's like everyone's like, always like, Why, Don't, you talk about this, and i'm like because it really doesn't it doesn't go with this. And I finally was able to develop a few a few months ago, a talk that was
124
00:32:47.640 --> 00:33:07.849
Tamsen Webster: about making and maintaining transformational change. And it was about kind of how do we swap out beliefs that are holding us back from something to beliefs that are that can actually connect us to the actions that lead us to. And then I was like, No, I finally have a reason to tell this story, but it's it's really critical that you've got that connection,
125
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:25.179
Jane Atkinson: hey? That's really good. Let's do an audit of all of our stories and make sure that they're necessary. I I really think the whole less is or less is more concept is perfect for the people who are with us here today. Um, Tampson, I can't tell you.
126
00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:55.170
Jane Atkinson: Thank you enough. Like really being here. Tell everybody on for the recording. Stay, tuned people. We're going to open it up and have you come on? Um, come on screen hopefully, and ask your questions. Tell everybody how they should get in touch with you if they, if they want to work with you. Is there a kind of like a first step to that? Yes, I mean there's I've got a contact form on my website at Tamsin Webster, Dot Com. If they feel like skipping the contact form which they're welcome to, they can just email me directly at Tamsin,
127
00:33:55.180 --> 00:34:12.159
Jane Atkinson: at Tams, at Webster Dot Com. Okay, Because the work that you do is seriously transformative. I'm thinking for people in their keynote. So thank you so much for being there. And with that for being here. And with that we'll say, See you soon, Wealthy speakers.
1
00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:25.840
Jane Atkinson: So welcome everyone to the wealthy Speaker schools, master's class. We are so lucky to have ten singing Webster in the house. Welcome, Tansen. Hello! Hello! Well, thank you so much for having me and for sharing your awesome group with me. Uh, we're here to talk epic keynote and tell everybody before we start like, What do you do in your day to day life?
2
00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:48.290
Tamsen Webster: So in my day to day life I like to say i'm an English to English Translator: Um: Essentially, what I mean by that is, if I could. I've spent about twenty five years now as a brand message and positioning person. Uh, and so basically helping people translate their ideas into language and concepts that anyone can understand and be motivated to act on.
3
00:00:48.300 --> 00:01:16.880
Jane Atkinson: You know, Don't, you think we have this saying over here at the wealthy Speaker school that clarity equals confidence When you nail that kind of thing down, when you really get crystal clear on what you're selling. It's a total game changer in your business completely. I because not only do you have that confidence you have this. You have this kind of core message, this core story, that then you can start to tell other versions of it. It. It becomes easier to figure out
4
00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:37.399
Jane Atkinson: like what examples you can do, and all the different places you can apply it. So it's it is. It is absolutely game changing. We're hundred percent in agreement on that. Uh welcome, Tanya! Welcome! I think it's Deborah Welcome, Deborah. So happy to have Caroline and Kelly and Matthew on the line with us as well. Now, Here's what we're gonna do today.
5
00:01:37.430 --> 00:02:02.760
Jane Atkinson: We're going to record a segment for the school. We'll get that going, and then we're going to open up for you all for Q. A. If you have a question in the moment, go ahead and put it in the chat. I've got my chat up, and I can um see if we could slip it in there before we stop. But don't worry. You will get all your questions answered If you're with us. Live here today. Now, uh Tansen, your book is called
6
00:02:02.770 --> 00:02:32.749
Tamsen Webster: Is this right? Find your red thread. It is. Find your red thread. Make your big ideas irresistible. So good. What a great, what a great title! And it's so compelling! It has me leaning in with curiosity, which is exactly what we want our language to do. Tell everybody what finding a red thread is about finding the story that people will tell themselves about your idea. And that's important because oftentimes, when i'm working with the speakers,
7
00:02:32.760 --> 00:02:54.089
Tamsen Webster: thought leaders, all sorts of folks that have these big, beautiful ideas that can really change the world, even if that's just one person we tend to focus on what we know is awesome about the idea and what we want to say about it. And we do that sometimes to the inclusion of realizing what actually somebody needs to hear in our idea in order for it to make sense and being compelling to them.
8
00:02:54.100 --> 00:03:23.779
Tamsen Webster: Uh, but the book is really based on this this idea, this fact, actually, that every decision that we make is humans is based on a story that we tell ourselves. And so the whole idea of the book is like. Well, since someone's going to create a story to process, why your idea does or doesn't make sense, anyway. Why, Don't. We start with their story because that's going to have all the things they need to hear in order to make sure it makes sense. So the idea kind of, uh what we talk about in the school is we make it about them.
9
00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:28.950
Jane Atkinson: Yes, and that way we're kind of uh, maybe
10
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:47.610
Tamsen Webster: managing the narrative, I guess perhaps absolutely. I mean the way another way to think about it is that we are talking about. We are making the case that your audience would make about your idea. And I think a lot of times when we think about our ideas and the and our keynote we're trying to like. We're up there like we're making the case and the challenges like.
11
00:03:47.620 --> 00:04:04.170
Tamsen Webster: When when you do that, you're making the case from the perspective of somebody who is already convinced your idea is right. But your your audience doesn't start there right. They have to make that case for themselves, and so that's what we're building or building their case for your idea, not yours.
12
00:04:04.180 --> 00:04:22.580
Jane Atkinson: And this is the path to epic keynote when you can kind of overcome their objections to your idea, you know. Just lay it out there. You're probably thinking, da da da, da, da. Now you're actually showing them that you do understand them. So
13
00:04:22.590 --> 00:04:31.900
Jane Atkinson: okay, get a pen and paper out everybody because it's gonna go deep on this. Um welcome, Shawn. Happy to have you on the line. So
14
00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:41.309
Jane Atkinson: step number one to kind of finding this red thread process. Go ahead and tell us what that is.
15
00:04:41.320 --> 00:05:11.300
Tamsen Webster: So it all needs to start with figuring out what question your audience is already asking for which your idea is an answer. So there's there's a lot packed into that. So let me let me unpack it a little bit. So first one is a question your audience is already asking. So one way to think about this, of course, is the is the famous problem that we're all asked to say like, What problem do you saw? What problem are you solving for them? And so a lot of times? This is exactly the problem that you're
16
00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:30.029
Tamsen Webster: your audience knows they have It's a known problem. Okay? Um, I like to frame it as a question. They're already asking, because, frankly, a lot of the folks that I've worked with work for, speak to, et cetera. They're not really solving a problem like I spent eight years in performing arts and visual arts, and you know they're not,
17
00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:46.479
Tamsen Webster: you know. You see him isn't solving a problem, and they're like, Oh, I don't know about this, but there are questions that people ask about the arts say, or about higher education that are still unanswered. How do I find the right fit for my student right to make sure that they're going to find a place. They succeed.
18
00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:58.490
Tamsen Webster: So anchoring that question and uh anchoring your keynote and a question they're already asking is the first big step. So let me stop there, and i'm sure you've got questions. Because
19
00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:24.269
Tamsen Webster: so the one big problem and the goal. Why don't we run an example of that, maybe with one of your clients, or anything that's speaking related, of course, will be best. Yeah, I mean, I think that so. So if I were to. Well, let's talk about a a a problem that often shows up for speakers right? Which is um my my
20
00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:46.179
Tamsen Webster: audiences. Uh, you know my client is asking me to fit my big, beautiful idea in a teeny, tiny little space, right? And so the question, like, if my audience are speakers that are. They're suffering from that right now. Their question would be, How do I get my big, beautiful idea to fit in a teeny tiny space without losing any of its power.
21
00:06:46.190 --> 00:06:54.480
Tamsen Webster: Because so you see what I mean where I'm not. I'm not so. Here's a thing. The reason why this is so important is because
22
00:06:54.490 --> 00:07:22.820
Tamsen Webster: you know one of the words you used earlier, Jane was curiosity. We need people to be curious enough about our topic for them to lean in, decide to hire. You, decide to attend your session, to decide to keep listening. Once you start talking right, and the thing we have to understand about curiosity. And this is so interesting is that it's actually a curve. It's an upside down. You. I want you to think of it that way. Oh, okay. And so.
23
00:07:22.830 --> 00:07:39.050
Tamsen Webster: Yeah. And And the reason why this is important is that a lot of times our first instinct, when we think about how do we make our idea like, How do we create curiosity with our content is that we think it. It's about being remarkable about being different,
24
00:07:39.110 --> 00:07:56.970
Tamsen Webster: you know, famously like Seth go in the marketing group talked about being a purple cow like being different enough to be remarkable, and that's not wrong, but we it kind of misses a step, which is people don't care how purple your cow is if they're not already looking for milk.
25
00:07:57.690 --> 00:08:26.950
Tamsen Webster: Do you see what I mean? Like? Someone has to be interested in cows like like in order to buy. They have to be interested in as wild as you want. But if you, if it's the wrong message for the wrong audience. Then it's just not going to connect right. So this comes back to this curve because a very interesting thing happens. So I want you to imagine, like on the X axis. This is about how expert somebody feels about your topic, how much they think they already know. Okay, that's on one level like if it's over here. Not so much over here, more
26
00:08:26.970 --> 00:08:36.529
Tamsen Webster: on this axis is how curious they are to no more like to learn the answer that you're presenting to them.
27
00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:49.139
Tamsen Webster: Alright. Now, remember, I said it was, an it was a curve so over here where somebody doesn't feel very expert in something. Their curiosity is actually negative.
28
00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:56.960
Tamsen Webster: So this is what can happen. So if you're like, I've got a purple, c. And they're like, Why would I care they aren't
29
00:08:56.970 --> 00:09:22.039
Tamsen Webster: that level of mystery. Isn't: Yeah, it's not enough for them to go. Oh, I wonder what Jane is talking about. Let me, you know. Figure out more. It's I I got way too many other things to think about. And oh, by the way, there's this other speaker who it's really clear they're talking about something that I know we need. So i'm just not even going to be. I'm not going to explore right. So that's like that's really important. And then so on the other side.
30
00:09:22.310 --> 00:09:27.180
Tamsen Webster: Another point where it's negative, or someone is so sure they already know the answer
31
00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:43.579
Tamsen Webster: that they're also again negatively curious. So, of course, what we're trying to do with this question is, find that magic middle. And so that's why I suggest we're looking for a question that your audience is already asking for which they don't yet have an answer, and you do
32
00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:57.930
Jane Atkinson: right. That's an important part of it is that you have an answer, and they don't yet know the answer. And so when what they want it right, yeah, they want it when we're talking about uh uh
33
00:09:57.940 --> 00:10:13.169
Tamsen Webster: um, you're selling water to thirsty people. Yes, exactly exactly. And a lot of times when i'm working with clients on this they're like. Yes, but this question isn't sexy, and i'm like not to you. It isn't, but to them
34
00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:29.660
Tamsen Webster: who, like they don't have this answer yet, like they don't know how to to put their content into a teeny tiny space, or your client, like doesn't know how to keep their team engaged, or you know your client doesn't know how to make and maintain transformational change, but they want to right, and they've been struggling with it.
35
00:10:29.670 --> 00:10:44.279
Tamsen Webster: That is an extraordinarily sexy question to them. It's, you know it, and it pops them right into the middle, because they know enough to know that they that that's a question they have, but they don't know the answer. So you haven't like tipped it over. You got them.
36
00:10:44.290 --> 00:11:12.950
Jane Atkinson: This is so good,
37
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:24.590
Tamsen Webster: and that's why it's over to your marketing as well, too. Yeah, exactly. And so sometimes, you know. And so one of the ways. So a couple of ways to think about finding this one is
38
00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:39.499
Tamsen Webster: a lot of times when i'm working with clients on this. They're like, but that's the wrong question. Yeah, Great start with the wrong question, because that's your your whole point of your keynote is to get them to ask a different question by the end of it, to say,
39
00:11:39.820 --> 00:11:57.579
Tamsen Webster: Oh, actually, okay, It's not that that's like, you know. It's not that it's the wrong question, and that's you know. I still need that answer. But i'm gonna get a much more powerful result if I do this instead. Right. So that's it. Can come fairly early on like in the
40
00:11:57.590 --> 00:12:14.099
Tamsen Webster: it. It should be so. I like to talk about when i'm helping people craft the beginnings of their their talk. I mean, I I call it a a hot open, which a hot open is to start right with that question. Who here wants to raise the probability of success of their sales calls.
41
00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:44.100
Tamsen Webster: Oh, yeah, that's good. Okay, let's go right. Yeah, you're like, I do, all right. Super, that's a hot open. You could just start with that question. Okay, uh, Caroline, saying, I have this problem with creativity. People think i'm not creative. So they don't have the curiosity, so she needs a question. She needs a question for which the answer is creativity. But they're talking about it something else. So they may be saying, You know, How do we stay competitive in the marketplace?
42
00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:58.339
Tamsen Webster: How do we do that? So you're looking for something that you know. The answer is creat creativity, but they don't so it it's not about a bait and switch it's getting them to understand and walking them through, that you may not have thought this was the answer,
43
00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:02.719
Tamsen Webster: but actually because of the case that you're making, it actually is.
44
00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:21.780
Jane Atkinson: And with Caroline situation, creativity can be the answer to a lot of things. So one of the things we try to narrow is what is the problem you're really helping solve with creativity, so that helps get focused, too, and that might help come to the question. Okay, yes,
45
00:13:21.790 --> 00:13:34.110
Jane Atkinson: this is a little much. I have Covid, you guys. So this is my respect. Your This is, I know how hard it is to make the brain work after Covid. So the last call of the day for me, I tell you. Okay.
46
00:13:34.120 --> 00:14:03.330
Tamsen Webster: So First, we want to anchor your keynote in a great question. We love that. Tell us what number two is. Alright, well, one like one, one a one like one. B. Let me just add that is it. Also, I just want to make a case for making sure that your keynote has one big answer to that. Not three or five or seven, because people have one big question. They want one big answer, and your three or five or seven things should be able to roll up into that answer, but they need to bit, walk away and go
47
00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:33.329
Tamsen Webster: If I really want right to like. Keep my team engaged. I need to do this one big thing, and it has these three parts. Right? Okay, Okay, Gotcha. That's really good. And you know it keeps us coming back to focus again and again and again, right, and it keeps it from being feeling overwhelming, and it keeps us. It keeps. It helps You make sure that your keynote is more likely to create an actual impact with your audio,
48
00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:52.080
Tamsen Webster: so that your clients can see a return. Because if you're offering someone three or five or seven answers to their question. They're going to suffer from what's known as the paradox of Choice, which is, you give people too many options, and they take none of them, and so they're like. Oh, that's interesting. It's informative, and they walk away doing nothing different.
49
00:14:52.090 --> 00:15:03.370
Jane Atkinson: That's why um the simplest keynote. I've talked a lot about Mel Robbins with her five second rule. I saw a male speak free five second rule,
50
00:15:03.670 --> 00:15:08.269
Tamsen Webster: and I don't remember what she talked about because it was one big thing. Yeah,
51
00:15:08.290 --> 00:15:24.290
Jane Atkinson: when she brought it down to it. And basically the five second rule is, just get off your button. Do something right? That's That's the technique for getting off your button doing something. Yeah, exactly. Oh, simple. It's just one thing. And I think that we all think Okay,
52
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:43.750
Jane Atkinson: i'm going down a little bit of a rabbit hole. Why do we all think that more is more talk, a bit less is more. And how this simplifying of your idea can be so helpful.
53
00:15:43.760 --> 00:16:13.110
Tamsen Webster: And so you know you. You've got an audience filled with smart, capable, good people. But anytime any human is faced with new information. It takes a lot of processing power for us to figure out what that person is saying, because it's all new right. So the issue with putting a whole bunch of stuff in is that you're overwhelming that processing power. And and what happens is our brains Just shut it down, and we just go. Whoa! That's too much. I can't take it.
54
00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:32.270
Tamsen Webster: And so. But if you've got one thing and one thing that you've hooked them with something that you know they want. It's like a persistent irritant for them. Not having this question answered, or it's an urgent thing that they've got to solve. Then, and you keep on that one thing, and you give them one big answer. It just
55
00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:50.270
Jane Atkinson: just get raises the probability that they are going to truly hear, truly understand, agree, and then therefore act on that idea for you. Oh, so good, Caroline! We're going to come back to that question when we open up for Q. A. I hope you'll come on camera. Okay.
56
00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:54.250
Jane Atkinson: So step number two. We've got three steps for you today.
57
00:16:54.550 --> 00:17:14.089
Tamsen Webster: Um. Talk about re revealing a deep, a deeper problem or attention. So to some extent it's probably quite similar to what you're talking about. Um, Jane, when you're saying that you help people like what? What problem you really solving to help narrow it down, Because, you know, creativity is,
58
00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:17.710
Tamsen Webster: can solve a whole bunch of different things, for instance. So
59
00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:31.630
Tamsen Webster: the let me explain kind of what happens first, and then we could kind of come back to it. And what happens is a lot of times. We say you've got this problem. A keynote is set up this way where you've got this problem. I've got this solution.
60
00:17:32.060 --> 00:17:44.969
Tamsen Webster: Let me explain it to you right, and we hope that just by giving problem solution, which I know is a very traditional format. Um, it's very consistent. And what people are, you know tell us about how to build a keynote.
61
00:17:45.020 --> 00:17:47.770
Tamsen Webster: So do you need a problem in solution?
62
00:17:47.790 --> 00:18:04.769
Tamsen Webster: Yes, you do. But remember what I said earlier, which is every decision, has a story, it we tell ourselves a story. It's not necessarily once upon a time story, but we say, Oh, this is right, because this is right, or this happens because this happens.
63
00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:30.100
Tamsen Webster: And what happens if you only give people problem and solution, You're essentially just giving them the beginning and the end of a story. Oh, interesting! So think of it this way, like if I were to tell you the story of Star Wars, as there was this Brady Kid, named Luke, who wanted to be a pilot, and he ended up defeating the dark side by Sh! Like destroying the guest desk star and save the galaxy. You're like,
64
00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:33.250
Tamsen Webster: Okay. But
65
00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:41.209
Tamsen Webster: ha! How did you get there right? So what actually needs to happen in people's mind is to say, okay, I've got this question:
66
00:18:41.220 --> 00:19:01.829
Tamsen Webster: How can I keep my team engaged at work right? And um or let's let's use one from from one of my clients, Ted, Ma and his question that we worked on was, you know. How can I help my team? My sales team reach their full potential? Okay. Question. That managers often are asking. I can see potential. They're not there yet. How do we get there?
67
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:19.529
Tamsen Webster: And what we have to do is to say, Now, you're like Again, your audience has this question, which means by and large they have been trying to answer it for themselves. Right? So you can't go like Remember that other side of the negative curiosity. You can't say well
68
00:19:19.570 --> 00:19:34.769
Tamsen Webster: like present that as if it's like a new question that no one's ever thought of, because they're like dude. I've got this question no way. But you have to explain what I mean by a deeper problem is the reason why that problem is so difficult to solve.
69
00:19:34.780 --> 00:19:50.639
Tamsen Webster: Oh, good. So you see what I mean, like you're going that direction. So you're basically saying just, you know, continuing Ted's example, I all right. So why is it hard, so hard for us to get our team to fulfill the potential. And then where where Ted landed was
70
00:19:51.100 --> 00:20:03.079
Tamsen Webster: it was that because right? We are hoping for leaders. But we're training for followers. So there's this tension between what we want and what we're doing,
71
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.869
Tamsen Webster: and we actually have to solve that right in order to get what you want. So it's
72
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:32.210
Tamsen Webster: the reason why I recommend like building this into your keynote is because that's like really the place where you truly start to differentiate yourself from other speakers on the same topic. Because you're basically saying, I say, the reason why you Haven't solved this is this is because there's this other tension going on right that we have to solve first. So we, you said, we have to figure out how do we not
73
00:20:32.520 --> 00:20:39.370
Tamsen Webster: train followers. Right? We have to figure out how we train leaders. How do we do that? Okay? And then you move on from there.
74
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:56.249
Jane Atkinson: They've heard me talk about in the school. Um, one of my clients, Greg Shenkel, who uh focused on leadership first, and then he focused on frontline leadership and manufacturing and and developed this amazing niche in manufacturing.
75
00:20:56.260 --> 00:21:01.329
Jane Atkinson: You get promoted into a leadership position because you're good at your job.
76
00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:21.749
Jane Atkinson: Yes, because you're like you've shown yourself to be a great leader. Usually. Usually It's just You're good at your job. And so you come to the table and you don't have a lot of skills, So that is something that he could talk about. How did you all, you know, get into your leadership positions, and then it's like, Oh, yeah, okay, We
77
00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:25.849
Jane Atkinson: you know, we do need what you're talking about. We do need what you're selling.
78
00:21:26.780 --> 00:21:32.980
Jane Atkinson: Exactly. Exactly. It's probably important, Right?
79
00:21:33.500 --> 00:21:58.609
Tamsen Webster: Yeah, I mean, it's so. I mean, The thing is that by doing that right, remember how we created that curiosity Gap. Okay. I have this question. But I don't have this answer yet. Oh, you're Jane, You're telling me. I'm going to get an answer. And then you say, and not only that here's why we don't have an answer to that yet, because there's actually this deeper problem we have to solve. Now you've like hooked them with another dose of curiosity because it's just like,
80
00:21:58.620 --> 00:22:07.359
Tamsen Webster: Oh, yeah, you're right like That's right like we. We've got this gap now what they're saying, and they're pulling themselves through your keynote,
81
00:22:07.370 --> 00:22:36.219
Jane Atkinson: and the more you know about them, the more you can get to these deeper problems. You know that's really coming in your research. So I think that's really important. And i'm going to circle back and ask you how you do research. Um, But let me just uh come to The third point is including something your audience already believes to create a moment of truth that's really cool.
82
00:22:36.370 --> 00:22:48.319
Tamsen Webster: Yeah. So this is part of what we drop out when we only give people the The The problem in solution is, we drop out an element that's in every story
83
00:22:48.330 --> 00:23:01.130
Tamsen Webster: like that. We tell other people all great stories, and whether that's heroes journey or any other kind, all great stories have this moment right before someone makes the decision to change where they have some kind of realization,
84
00:23:01.370 --> 00:23:04.820
Tamsen Webster: right? And we
85
00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:21.919
Tamsen Webster: I mean, I used to do this, too. We just skip right over it right. And part of the reason why I think we do. That is a again. We remember, I said before, where we we make the case for our idea from the from the point of view of somebody who's already convinced that it's right.
86
00:23:21.930 --> 00:23:43.870
Tamsen Webster: So it actually doesn't occur to us to explain the whole like reasoning behind. Like, Okay, if you want to get your team to fulfill their potential, and you're hoping for leaders in training for followers. Right? What else do we need to know? Like, How do you like? They need some aspect of training for followers, so they need to know why you do, why you do what you do,
87
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:59.719
Tamsen Webster: but they also need to know why you do it that way, and they're not going to understand that unless you give them an extra piece of information. So um, you know. So, for instance, with Ted Ma like we came up with this idea that leadership is learned
88
00:23:59.730 --> 00:24:21.469
Tamsen Webster: right? And and you see that that's a freeze; that a lot of people, or the people who are going to be his like, more more likely to be his clients would agree with It's not something he has to convince them of, and that's really important. Because if you want to get someone to do something new or different. The biggest barrier to that is that it all feels new and different.
89
00:24:21.530 --> 00:24:26.349
Tamsen Webster: But if you can feel, if you can make something new, feel like
90
00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:55.839
Tamsen Webster: just a different new combination of things that are already familiar like Oh, well, because I already want this, and I would agree that i'm already doing that. And I already believe this I hadn't thought of them that way together. But yeah, of course, this makes a new thing. So this element is is a not always easy to find, because we we it. It never occurs to us to say that loud, but it is critic call when it comes to creating a keynote that people can't on here.
91
00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:57.750
Jane Atkinson: Hmm.
92
00:24:57.820 --> 00:25:16.979
Jane Atkinson: People can't on here. I love that. So I always thought that the red line might be similar to a through line. It is, I mean, one hundred percent. Yes, so let's define it. Each of us just to make Sure, we're on this page, so we've called it a phrase that pays.
93
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:20.429
Jane Atkinson: We've called it a through line. Um,
94
00:25:20.590 --> 00:25:21.610
Jane Atkinson: yeah,
95
00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:37.580
Jane Atkinson: there's a lot of different kind of lingo going on about that. But when you can pull in some language at the beginning, and then sprinkle it throughout, like, for instance, the five second rule,
96
00:25:37.590 --> 00:25:47.800
Jane Atkinson: you know she teed it up. What is the five second rule at the beginning of the talk, and then sprinkled by second rule, and you know, and maybe there's a call to action that goes with that. I don't know.
97
00:25:48.390 --> 00:26:02.810
Jane Atkinson: So I met. I might be defining it a little bit differently than you. So Why, I um, i'm thinking through line would look really good on a coffee mug as a reminder to take action.
98
00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:22.179
Tamsen Webster: Okay, it's like Nike's let's just do it right. So I would say that that in my the way I think about it that's half a through line. So for me a through line is both the question and the answer, and that, and it includes both something people want, and the means they don't expect, because
99
00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:51.099
Tamsen Webster: uh, to me, but also when we think about like how through lines are referenced in in story, but also research and a logic. It through line usually talks about like, what is the connecting like, What's the what is the logical progression of ideas? And so I so you can, by finding the pieces of the red thread that I talk about in the book the goal which we've already talked about, The problem which you've talked about, the truth that I've talked about the change which you already know, because that's your idea.
100
00:26:51.110 --> 00:27:00.450
Tamsen Webster: Um. And the action you can distill those down into a through line really easily. So, for instance, just to articulate the difference. So
101
00:27:00.490 --> 00:27:12.999
Tamsen Webster: like Um, Amy cuddy's Ted Talk on power posing right like you could say Power posing is the through line to some extent, but I would say that the the complete through line is your body. Language
102
00:27:13.010 --> 00:27:33.470
Tamsen Webster: embodied in power, Posing may affect, like, maybe, a key to undoing imposter syndrome or overcoming imposter syndrome, like. If you want to overcome impostor syndrome, right? Use your body language to your advantage. To me that is the idea of the keynote. The tool is power posing right. But that
103
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:56.639
Jane Atkinson: that element of this is actually the message of the talk that your body language may help you overcome. Imposter syndrome is the thing that connects everything in that talk together. Yeah. And I think it's so important that you have that glue to come back to and come back to and come back to. And so we take it just that one step further and say, You know um.
104
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:11.730
Jane Atkinson: I am powerful, you know, and I am powerful, might be the phrase that she tease up at the beginning, and then said: And And the idea is that it sends people home like ready to take action. And so if I look at my coffee month,
105
00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:27.450
Jane Atkinson: and it reminds me in the morning I am powerful, and maybe i'm gonna do my pose before I get on my call with whoever I'm gonna talk to. That's the ideas that that that it's a reminder. So I think we have different language for it, but it it's all
106
00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:44.309
Jane Atkinson: important and moves in exactly the same direction. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So let us just ask you one final question, and then we're going to wrap this, and we're going to come to Q. A. Our group. Um! What would you say
107
00:28:44.520 --> 00:28:47.909
Jane Atkinson: in the structure of a keynote
108
00:28:47.920 --> 00:29:16.549
Jane Atkinson: is like ours. Typically some things that you think people miss anything that we haven't covered yet. Is there anything that you know? We know that stories? So So I I always talk to people about balancing the teaching versus stories. How do you talk about balancing the teaching versus I would one hundred percent. So to me, usually, when we talk about story, we're talking about the definition of story. That essentially means an example of something
109
00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:33.540
Tamsen Webster: right like. Let me give you an example like, and we're telling a story either to say, Let me exhibit. Give you an example of when I went through this like. If you're telling like a story of yourself you're like. Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about, or if it's a case, study or some work you do with a client you're using as an example.
110
00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:39.419
Tamsen Webster: We need to make sure that we're always clear with our audience. Of what is it an example of?
111
00:29:39.790 --> 00:30:04.399
Tamsen Webster: And I think Sometimes we miss that. We missed like drawing out for the audience what the lesson of that story, what the point of that story actually is, The point needs to come first, and then the example. Not necessarily so, I, as long as they're both there right. As long as you're saying, you know what. Let me give you this powerful, You know this phrase that pays slow and steady wins the race. Let me tell you a story,
112
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:12.280
Tamsen Webster: and then you're like. Do you see what I mean like, So you can do point, example, point, or you can do. For example, you can do example, point. My point is
113
00:30:12.330 --> 00:30:19.280
Tamsen Webster: just. Never give an example without making sure that the you've explained the point to the audience as well, because
114
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:23.919
Tamsen Webster: you may be sure that your meeting is clear, but
115
00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:28.949
Tamsen Webster: that is probably not the case. So it's a it's, you know. It's a thing that that
116
00:30:29.060 --> 00:30:39.160
Tamsen Webster: scientists and psychologists know is the false consensus effect. It's. We. We tend to believe that everybody sees the world the same way we do, but they don't.
117
00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:52.330
Tamsen Webster: And so, by being clear on what the point of the story is either the one you're about to tell or the one you just told. You are eliminating the chance that someone takes the wrong message out of it.
118
00:30:53.380 --> 00:31:00.090
Jane Atkinson: You know this is why we craft our keynote rather than wing it.
119
00:31:00.100 --> 00:31:29.979
Tamsen Webster: Because then you're not like that. Yeah, yeah. Because if you're not, If So here's the other. There's this. I need to find the the citation again. But there is research that shows that sixty to seventy percent of a story is, gets lost by the fifth or sixth retelling something along those lines. In other words, we lose the words. But what sticks is the idea? So if you're not super clear with your audience on what idea you want them to take away. They're gonna
120
00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:59.119
Tamsen Webster: to walk away with our own idea, and it may not be the one that supports your message, and if it isn't the one that supports your message, that might be why you don't my Sometimes you don't get the reaction or the return on a talk that you're looking for, because you thought you. This was a beautifully clear example of something. But you didn't tell them what it was an example of. And so that's a that. A big thing for me is to make sure that you're always making sure that A. You know the point of a story and B,
121
00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:06.600
Tamsen Webster: that you tell them. Because when you do that, not only are you guaranteeing that the audience understands what? Why, you told that story,
122
00:32:06.740 --> 00:32:32.889
Tamsen Webster: but it also serves as a really good check about whether or not a story belongs in that particular talk or not, because if you can't make it make a point like if you can't draw a lesson that's actually tied to the big through line, the big idea of your talk. It doesn't belong there, and I struggle with with two because I have this like awesome story. It's like it has all the the Harlem hallmarks of a classic signature story, except it had
123
00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:47.529
Tamsen Webster: nothing to do with what I normally talk about. So it's like everyone's like, always like, Why, Don't, you talk about this, and i'm like because it really doesn't it doesn't go with this. And I finally was able to develop a few a few months ago, a talk that was
124
00:32:47.640 --> 00:33:07.849
Tamsen Webster: about making and maintaining transformational change. And it was about kind of how do we swap out beliefs that are holding us back from something to beliefs that are that can actually connect us to the actions that lead us to. And then I was like, No, I finally have a reason to tell this story, but it's it's really critical that you've got that connection,
125
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:25.179
Jane Atkinson: hey? That's really good. Let's do an audit of all of our stories and make sure that they're necessary. I I really think the whole less is or less is more concept is perfect for the people who are with us here today. Um, Tampson, I can't tell you.
126
00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:55.170
Jane Atkinson: Thank you enough. Like really being here. Tell everybody on for the recording. Stay, tuned people. We're going to open it up and have you come on? Um, come on screen hopefully, and ask your questions. Tell everybody how they should get in touch with you if they, if they want to work with you. Is there a kind of like a first step to that? Yes, I mean there's I've got a contact form on my website at Tamsin Webster, Dot Com. If they feel like skipping the contact form which they're welcome to, they can just email me directly at Tamsin,
127
00:33:55.180 --> 00:34:12.159
Jane Atkinson: at Tams, at Webster Dot Com. Okay, Because the work that you do is seriously transformative. I'm thinking for people in their keynote. So thank you so much for being there. And with that for being here. And with that we'll say, See you soon, Wealthy speakers.
Highlights you won’t want to miss:
- Finding Your Red Thread. [2:30]
- The upside-down U. [6:30]
- Give them a hot open. [11:00]
- The one big answer. [14:00]
- Telling the whole story. [17:30]
- Creating curiosity and then realization. [21:00]
- Completing a through line. [25:30]
- Building the structure to support your message. [29:00]
Today, Tamsen is a globe-hopping keynote speaker who consults with enterprise companies like Verizon, Johnson & Johnson, and State Street Bank on how to get their big ideas to have the impact they deserve.
If you want some really innovative ideas to help you improve upon your message and make your keynote epic, you simply can’t afford to miss this episode!
I hope you’ll download and learn.
Links:
Tamsen’s website
Tamsen’s email: tamsen@tamsenwebster.com
See Tamsen’s book here
Tamsen’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s LinkedIn profile
The Wealthy Speaker School
The Wealthy Speaker 3.0
