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How to Create a Long-Term Strategy with Sunjay Nath

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Quote: “I believe that you should be creating value and getting paid handsomely for doing so. So, if you create more value, you should make more money.” Sunjay Nath

Do you currently have a strategy in place to sustain your business long-term, or have you been flying by the seat of your pants and reacting to whatever happens? In order to maintain and grow, you must have some sort of plan devised to be more proactive in how your business moves forward. On this episode of The Wealthy Speaker Show, I am thrilled to welcome my former client Sunjay Nath to discuss how his successful speaking business has progressed over the years.

Sunjay is an internationally renowned speaker who travels globally, sharing insights on leadership and performance. In 2005, Sunjay became the youngest Canadian CSP and was inducted into the Speaking Hall of Fame in 2018.


Read Full Transcript

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Jane Atkinson: Well, welcome everyone to the wealthy speaker podcast I am thrilled to be hosting an old friend and old client sends a nap welcome to the show sanjay.

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Sunjay Nath: Thank you, what do you call it old.

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Jane Atkinson: old friends civic about how I use that today we're talking about how to create a long term strategy tell everybody what age, you were and how long you have been in this business.

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Sunjay Nath: January 8 1995 That was my first presentation, the story goes as i've been doing this just a little over 27 years.

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Sunjay Nath: And yeah I I started off in one market i've kind of evolved into another, but I still play in the first market because the phone keeps ringing.

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Jane Atkinson: So um when you were 19 years old, is that when you first gave your first paid speech.

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Sunjay Nath: That is correct, and so, if you did the math you know that i'm now 47.

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Jane Atkinson: i'm 58 so.

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Jane Atkinson: let's not talk about that um.

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Jane Atkinson: So you were 19 and your first market was and talk about how we started working together to because I totally forgot about it.

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Sunjay Nath: Okay, so hold on, so the story goes like this.

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Sunjay Nath: I was studying engineering i'm pretty engineering at the university and when I graduated high school, I was super involved, I was like valedictorian and student Council President played volleyball and ran the school store and had a high 98 I was one of those gets.

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Sunjay Nath: yeah, and so I was setting engineering and the you, President of student household two years removed from me called me up and said we want you to come back and talk to people of the benefits of getting involved and they said well pay to speak and I went.

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Sunjay Nath: Up to speak normally people pay me to shut up this is good.

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Sunjay Nath: And so I kind of started doing backflips in my house where I was with students, I was living with the one girl, I was living with said, what are you so excited about i'm like they want to pay me to speak.

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Sunjay Nath: And she said, what are you gonna speak on I don't get involved in leadership and and she's like well I coach a swim team why don't you come and talk to the cmt.

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Sunjay Nath: And I was like Okay, so I go meet the head coach of the swim team it's a competitive swim team in kingston Ontario.

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Sunjay Nath: And the coach says to me he goes this stuff is great, but it sounds like more than a one shot deal, we want to do a weekly series, and I was like okay so i'm 19 years old.

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Sunjay Nath: And next thing I realize i'm speaking to eight to 10 year olds about goal setting and dealing with your parents and communication and setting your sights on the Olympic and I was waking up.

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Sunjay Nath: 630 Saturday mornings to do this now honestly I was a 19 year old kid in college, and so I would go out and I would come in at like 130 in the morning and I would start writing my talk and 630 in the morning, I would deliver it and what would happen is.

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Jane Atkinson: People were talking about how to create a long term strategy today, this is not.

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Sunjay Nath: Very sustainable absolutely so what happened was older kids would sit in on the sessions yeah and then at one point parents started sending in a lot of sessions.

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Sunjay Nath: And this one gentleman came up to me afterwards and said that was wonderful I run a youth group, would you like to speak to the youth group I was, like all right, so I went and did that and I did a 45 minute session afterwards, he came up to me and he said.

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Sunjay Nath: That was wonderful and he gave me $45 and I was like $1 a minute at this rate i'll be rich, this is fantastic.

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Sunjay Nath: But I actually have initially refused it was one of my first big Aha lesson I refuse, I said no i'm doing this voluntarily and he said no i'm sorry.

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Sunjay Nath: He goes, this is what we have money for i'm sorry we couldn't pay you more it's worth more, and in that audience, there were some teachers and a teacher came up to me, afterwards, and that was great how much you charge to speak at schools and I went you can charge us because schools.

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Sunjay Nath: And in my 19 year old wisdom, I came up with the biggest number, I could possibly think of I said I charge.

00:04:01.020 --> 00:04:10.320
Sunjay Nath: charge charge $300 now 1995 i'm a 19 year old kid $300 and she said that sounds reasonable we'd like to hire you and my jaw just dropped.

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Sunjay Nath: And I went and did that, and she actually invited a teacher from another school to come and watch me they liked it they hired me and the things just kind of snowballed from there, so fast forward.

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Sunjay Nath: 10 years into this I that's when we first met and I kind of approached you and said, look at, I want to get busier and I know you work with speakers and maybe you can help me and coach me and.

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Sunjay Nath: And I want to, I want to get more into this youth market and you said to me, you know what sounds great you're on a wonderful path and i'd love to help you but.

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Sunjay Nath: I don't know enough about that market to really help you and you said something along the lines of if you ever get into the corporate world.

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Sunjay Nath: Let me know and 2008 fast forward three years from there, I could call me up and said I have your business card from eight years ago during orientation week at college.

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Sunjay Nath: I now work for this bank, what can you do, and so that was my first kind of corporate they did gig and then I went to you and I said okay i'm corporate now help me.

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Sunjay Nath: And you actually helped me significantly with articulating my brand and and which is an idea and a concept that I you help me walk through the process and i'm still using to this day, so.

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Jane Atkinson: A lot of people in the youth market today because I think i've gotten a lot more confident about it, and what I recognize now to sanjay and you don't know this so we're catching up we haven't seen each other in quite a quite a long time.

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Jane Atkinson: What you don't know is what's changed about my coaching is yes, we coach on tactics, but we also talk a lot about mindset.

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Jane Atkinson: And so, back in the day, had I coached you in the youth market, I would have said Okay, I think this is what the market will bear based on people that I know in that market, who are at the top of the range and kind of.

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Jane Atkinson: encouraged you to continue to grow your confidence and ask for more one of the things that you did so, this is a part of your long term strategy, you did what I would call is be good marketing.

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Jane Atkinson: The first swim team somebody said hey this guy's good let's get him to do this, like everything that you have done over your 27 year career has been has been spun off into something else.

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Sunjay Nath: yeah and, by the way, just back to the the coaching piece to me actually that.

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Sunjay Nath: it's something that really showed integrity, for me, was, you said you know what i'd love to help you but at that time you weren't an expert or you can create the value.

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Sunjay Nath: And I mean that's one of the things that that's important, even from the speaking or the coaching world is, if you can't create the value and if you can only do a seven out of 10 for the client.

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Sunjay Nath: But you have a colleague, or even a competitor they can do a nine out of 10 you should be referring that business because the customer remembers and, more importantly, the value is created.

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Jane Atkinson: So this kind of leads us down a place that we don't entirely agree, but we kind of agree.

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Jane Atkinson: Is that when you first started out in the world of speaking I think you likely were like a generalist right if somebody said, can you do this, you are kind of searching your way and trying to figure out where you want it to specialize is that right.

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Sunjay Nath: hundred percent and yet we do vary slightly, but it's Okay, because you're entitled to your opinion.

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Sunjay Nath: And, and you know what the conventional wisdom is is this idea of specialization which i'm all for and nourishing.

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Sunjay Nath: My and I think that's where you have the greatest opportunities and that's where you actually not only the greatest opportunities to create business and make money but to fill your soul.

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Sunjay Nath: Because if you're doing something and you're chasing the hot topic, you might make a few bucks or whatever, but I think you burn out.

00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:58.770
Sunjay Nath: But where I kind of spin it slightly differently, as I go, I believe that people when they first start they don't know enough to niche.

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Sunjay Nath: So they don't know, for example, that this particular market have left handed female golfers existed.

00:08:05.070 --> 00:08:09.240
Sunjay Nath: And that, and they would never even thought of it and they got in front of three of those audiences and.

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Sunjay Nath: They resonated at a level and those people are singing their praises and giving them standing ovations for 17 hours and what have you, and so I that's why I believe initially people should be saying yes to everything to figure out what the niche exists at the best.

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Jane Atkinson: So let's also clarify some language here, so I talked about picking a lane, and when we talk about picking a lane, we really are talking about like what topic, what do you want to be known for five years from now.

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Jane Atkinson: But then there's also this idea of a niche and to me that's a target market that's a group of people that you're gonna maybe drill down on are we on the same page about that.

00:08:49.050 --> 00:08:51.030
Jane Atkinson: yeah okay so.

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Sunjay Nath: Sorry wait a second when you said you pick a lane is elaine cute and she's single i'm.

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Sunjay Nath: Sorry okay go ahead.

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Jane Atkinson: guys down the rabbit hole we go.

00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:04.860
Sunjay Nath: You can edit that out later door, but we know that it I forgot.

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Jane Atkinson: We don't edit the podcast so it's all good so.

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Jane Atkinson: When it let's talk about when you decided what your lane was going to be and what it is today, like when did you start to identify.

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Jane Atkinson: Who your market was you've got it you've got a philosophy called 10 at 10 I want to hear about that, when exactly did everything start to come together for you, I know, work in the youth market, they can really work you hard.

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Sunjay Nath: yeah so again, so the youth market people would you know, back then, it was a lot of.

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Sunjay Nath: And then today's day laying language we use black lives matter back then needs to be called anti discrimination or.

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Sunjay Nath: Racism and so that was a topic, and then there was bullying was kind of up and around there and then there was leadership and then there was drinking and driving speakers and so anytime I had an opportunity, I always say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because.

00:10:01.710 --> 00:10:04.020
Sunjay Nath: I didn't know what I didn't know and then later.

00:10:04.410 --> 00:10:12.150
Sunjay Nath: It was probably around the time you know, this is a shameless plug for you, but when I really actually started to hone in was working with you, and that was probably.

00:10:12.390 --> 00:10:19.800
Sunjay Nath: I was 10 years into the business now I don't think people need to take 10 years to start teaching I think that's i'm a i'm a slow learner I met.

00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:31.410
Jane Atkinson: Claire to pick a lane they don't need to take 10 years but it's not uncommon in the youth market, I think, for somebody to be a little bit more of a jack of all trades.

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Sunjay Nath: Right yeah 100%, and so it was.

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Sunjay Nath: In fact, and i've seen it your book and stuff, but you have this pretty little chart and i'm a numbers guy and I like charts and.

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Sunjay Nath: and basically what you made me do is you said, and again we're going back 30 years and we've been talked about the sense, but you said what are all the topics you possibly speak on.

00:10:50.310 --> 00:10:58.170
Sunjay Nath: credible and then you're like what's the market what's the potential, but a funny what's it whatever all this sort of it was just a simple Adam up multiply.

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Sunjay Nath: Do a weighted average and that kind of allowed me to see some of the stuff that I wasn't really a superstar at rank low and then, when I kind of had that reflection, I went.

00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:18.300
Sunjay Nath: It ranks low, but I realized that I didn't get the same stomach the same excitement level when someone had called me and asked me to do something on drinking and driving.

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Sunjay Nath: Right, and so what I learned to do is more around the leadership piece of it and making smart choices so after that, when someone said hey looking for drinking and driving speaker, I would say I don't do drinking and driving.

00:11:31.590 --> 00:11:37.470
Sunjay Nath: You know I got a friend mad he does a great job with that, but if you're looking for someone to talk about choices specifically.

00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:47.370
Sunjay Nath: Then I can do that, and sometimes they say to me oh that's perfect we want you in choices great or they go know we're looking for someone and I go great matter guy okay.

00:11:47.430 --> 00:11:50.670
Jane Atkinson: that's really good that and I think that's helpful to people who.

00:11:51.180 --> 00:12:03.780
Jane Atkinson: Who, because a lot of times, I think you can align what it is that you offer to what their needs are there's often some common ground somewhere in the in the middle day you can figure it out.

00:12:04.140 --> 00:12:10.140
Jane Atkinson: Okay, so let's talk about 10 at 10 because I do think we might have been working together, either.

00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:17.760
Jane Atkinson: right before that happened, or something, but the 10 at 1010 thing idea to help tell everybody what the concept is.

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Jane Atkinson: And how that has evolved like you're kind of sometimes putting your stake in the ground and saying this is my philosophy, this is my formula, and that was what 10 at 10 was for you.

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Sunjay Nath: yeah so 10 at 10 is a brand and what is it it's all about focusing on your strengths so i'll give a one minute overview so 10 at 10 says, you know any group of people can be subdivided into three groups top 10% bottom.

00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:51.810
Sunjay Nath: 10% majority of the percent top 10 wants to be their bottom line has to be there majority at fault whoever's more empowered.

00:12:52.350 --> 00:13:00.570
Sunjay Nath: So the classic example I like to use is if you've ever been to a musical and then giving a standing ovation to a performance that you didn't really think deserve a standing ovation.

00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:09.240
Sunjay Nath: that's 10 at 10 at work, why what happened, so you were a majority at person sitting in the audience, you were swivel and you ended up sitting next to the lead roles mother.

00:13:09.900 --> 00:13:10.500
Sunjay Nath: So the.

00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:21.420
Sunjay Nath: program finishes she's what the top 10 choose empower she jumps up to jealousy screen she's throwing flowers and out of social obligation out of not wanting to be rude to stand up and you're clapping along too.

00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:28.110
Sunjay Nath: And so that that's kind of how it, how it is now where did they come from every time I read a leadership book or.

00:13:28.890 --> 00:13:34.260
Sunjay Nath: personal development, video or anything I found certain themes kept on coming up time and time again.

00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:43.830
Sunjay Nath: And this notion of focusing on your strengths were set in various different forms, and so what I literally This is like I pulled together a couple of hundred of these ideas.

00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:52.590
Sunjay Nath: From like pareto principle and jack welch's differentiation and you've been spared law and put them all together and kind of came up with this articulation.

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Sunjay Nath: When I was working with you this is when the Epiphany of kind of putting it together actually all came together, so I was, I actually looked at at the time and looked at the seven habits brands Stephen covey.

00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:10.200
Sunjay Nath: And I looked into, I said there's a lot of things there that I really liked specifically.

00:14:11.310 --> 00:14:20.310
Sunjay Nath: It was it had an intuitive buying you didn't need research to convince people right, so people would do it through very simple concepts.

00:14:20.610 --> 00:14:33.720
Sunjay Nath: If someone bought into and latch on to it here's here's the key was they tapped into their own inner genius they got the results and they figured it was actually the content, but it release and the content, the content just unleash it lives within you.

00:14:34.410 --> 00:14:41.460
Sunjay Nath: And so that was what I was trying to do with the brand was to try to create an idea, a lot seven habits that.

00:14:41.850 --> 00:14:50.070
Sunjay Nath: People would hear it, they get it and it represents something bigger which just taps into their own inner genius and and then I apply it to sales I play the culture.

00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:58.410
Sunjay Nath: And like you saying you put your stake in the ground and that's what i've done so over the years, doing presentations people have often asked me to.

00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:14.550
Sunjay Nath: speak on presentation, training and so presentation training wasn't in my realm, but I could do presentation training from a 10 at 10 perspective, so what I say is everyone has a top 10 and for example i'm a sarcastic smartass and so.

00:15:14.610 --> 00:15:17.310
Sunjay Nath: When you see a lot of a try something new.

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Sunjay Nath: and actually wanted probably one of the best compliments I ever received for speaking wasn't even meant to be a compliment my ex mother in law came to see me speak for the first time, and she went home and when he's the same on stage is exhausting.

00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:30.750

00:15:32.070 --> 00:15:36.450
Sunjay Nath: It is a great compliment so but, but I would I do is I try to help people find their top 10.

00:15:36.630 --> 00:15:49.020
Sunjay Nath: Which means if you're an emotional tree hugger you shouldn't be sarcastic and if you are, you know if you're a statistic driven numbers freak, then you should be a statistics numbers driven numbers there's nothing wrong with doing that you want to embrace it that's your top debt.

00:15:49.470 --> 00:15:51.360
Sunjay Nath: So I applied try to apply it to everything.

00:15:52.080 --> 00:16:06.510
Jane Atkinson: I like that Okay, and I like that that's served you so well um let's talk a little bit because we we've called this session, how to create a long term strategy.

00:16:07.680 --> 00:16:17.610
Jane Atkinson: Now I would love to know something that you wish, you would have known way back at the beginning, what What would you have.

00:16:18.180 --> 00:16:24.720
Jane Atkinson: Would you have looked up at that 10,000 foot level more often to maybe.

00:16:25.410 --> 00:16:39.630
Jane Atkinson: This is one of the things you know I go once a quarter to my coach and it's incredibly helpful to just rise up to that 10,000 foot level and and see what's going on in your business what What would you say that you would wish you would have done sooner.

00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:42.540
Sunjay Nath: Oh, many things um.

00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:51.090
Sunjay Nath: I wish I understood the philosophy, I mean there's a bunch of philosophies I wish I understood one is I talked myself out of so much money.

00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:58.140
Sunjay Nath: I was the King of I charge I charge this, but you probably don't have that it's only do this I know it's horrible that way.

00:16:58.530 --> 00:17:03.630
Jane Atkinson: And I love your fee, by the way, your fee in Canada, can I say what it is.

00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:16.170
Jane Atkinson: Absolutely and thousand dollars a lot of people in Canada, had a perception at one time, that in order to get 10 K you needed to be some best selling author, or have some status.

00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:38.730
Jane Atkinson: And I do believe that mindset is a huge part of what's possible and I am seeing 10 and i'm seeing and i'm seeing and i'm seeing 24 people who are not celebrities so that's good news for Canadian speakers and if you're in the US, of course, I want you to know that.

00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:52.680
Jane Atkinson: When I say to a speaker's Bureau that my client is 25 K they're like oh great because they say Oh, I can make some money off of this so i'm glad you've gone there.

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Sunjay Nath: Can I can I share a quick little story yes i'm i'm actually i'm 15 now I was 10 before.

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Sunjay Nath: that's okay.

00:18:01.590 --> 00:18:15.570
Sunjay Nath: But I just recently had an experience, where someone called me and said, you know, we want to do this thing you know how much it was it was a graduation for college did we have 12 minutes and they said what's up and I said 15 and.

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Sunjay Nath: One of the things i've always learned is you say your fee, and you shut up and if there's silence you kind of you know, do a follow up question and that's what I got sounds so but well what's the budget and i'm thinking they're gonna say it's a bag of doritos.

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Sunjay Nath: And she says.

00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:32.550

00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:35.820
Sunjay Nath: At which point.

00:18:36.150 --> 00:18:36.750
Sunjay Nath: I was like.

00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:41.490
Sunjay Nath: When you have 50 grand for a 12 minute presentation, you are going celebrity.

00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:54.840
Sunjay Nath: Right and they ended up we ended up using a celebrity which is fine, but how often do our our own perception kind of jump in though they they're only going to give me a bag of doritos oh it's not going to have had 50 grand in the in the budget.

00:18:55.350 --> 00:18:55.710
Jane Atkinson: So.

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Sunjay Nath: By the way, going back to that you know what what's one of the things I wish i'd known.

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Sunjay Nath: I used to think one speak I call them speaks, by the way, i've always called them speaks I used to think one speak makes or breaks you and it doesn't.

00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:15.360
Sunjay Nath: So I still think only if I got this one opportunity then life would be good, or if I mess this up life is over.

00:19:15.780 --> 00:19:18.000
Sunjay Nath: it's not one speak does not make or break you.

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Jane Atkinson: that's funny vince and I used to joke about that, so I managed a speaker name vince pesenti out of Dallas and he would call after an engagement and he would say everything has changed.

00:19:33.030 --> 00:19:48.720
Jane Atkinson: Like because one speak was going to make or break right and we would joke and laugh about it because really it was all just like an incremental thing, there are some good gigs that have really good spin off potential let's be clear on that.

00:19:49.920 --> 00:20:08.820
Jane Atkinson: But if you get a Ted talk it may not change your life, it may change your life or it may not change your life, and you know the odds are probably leading in favor of not so thank you so when speak will not make or break you let's talk about one bomb for one speak.

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:23.580
Sunjay Nath: that's what I mean make or break, you will break you one Bob like unless there are very few exceptions, and one of the exceptions that comes to my mind, is Michael Kramer the guy that the not Michael Kramer Cosmo Kramer was Michael richards Michael richards.

00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:35.550
Sunjay Nath: yeah there's an example when you have such a high when you start so high, and you can crash and burn in front of front of an audience when you have the world looking at, yes, when you're like rude and offensive and you make really poor choices.

00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:49.530
Sunjay Nath: yeah totally but for most people if you get in front of an audience and you bought yeah and and if you do this long enough, you will ball good at some point and there's different degrees of bombing, you will Bob it will not destroy your career now.

00:20:50.130 --> 00:21:07.140
Jane Atkinson: And, and please know For those of you who are a part of your strategy for coming back from something like that and I i've given this to one of my highest paid speakers hottest hottest hottest you know seven figure earner.

00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:22.290
Jane Atkinson: When you bomb, one of the one of the tactics i'm going to say is to actually have your next speech just really focus on the audience make it about them.

00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:32.550
Jane Atkinson: And not you, because if your thought going into that audiences, oh no, you know I just bomb what's this going to be on no good.

00:21:32.970 --> 00:21:43.440
Jane Atkinson: And all of that that is not going to lead that's going to lead you down to a very dark path and you're going to go into it with uncertainty, but when you focus on the audience instead of yourself.

00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:49.110
Jane Atkinson: don't you find that that just kind of alleviates all that nonsense talk that we say to ourselves.

00:21:49.620 --> 00:22:02.220
Sunjay Nath: 100% and it's i'm going to go even higher forget the next talk, you should be doing that every talk, I mean, ultimately, if you want sustainability, if you want to create value, and you know.

00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:16.200
Sunjay Nath: I believe that you should be creating value and getting paid handsomely for doing so, so if you create more value should make more money and one of the best ways to create value is not to go, do you know personal therapy on the stage.

00:22:16.590 --> 00:22:23.220
Sunjay Nath: it's it's a matter of what is most helpful for these people what's going to move them forward whether it's personally or professionally or a combination of both or.

00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:35.160
Sunjay Nath: financially or spiritually or depending on your topic, and when you come from that place even if you do find yourself messing up or there's a technical glitch or whatever.

00:22:35.310 --> 00:22:38.400
Sunjay Nath: People will give you so much rope and so much slack.

00:22:38.580 --> 00:22:51.720
Sunjay Nath: Because they can they can smell it if you're genuinely there to try to help them and something goes awry they still will support you, and so it helps both way, so you should be after every ball, but after every success as well.

00:22:53.430 --> 00:23:06.810
Jane Atkinson: You know inside the wealthy speaker school, we give both tactics and strategy so we're kind of helping people with their long term vision of their business and really you know what are some of the bigger picture goals.

00:23:07.230 --> 00:23:24.300
Jane Atkinson: But i'm going to also add to that that we also have woven mindset through the whole thing and I, I really do believe that your confidence in your mindset kind of need to build and grow as you grow talk a little bit about speakers needing tactics versus strategy.

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:35.580
Sunjay Nath: Well, I mean digital strategy this define them to me strategies, the big levels of 10,000 foot view it's the path in which you're going sorry that even the path it's it's more the destination.

00:23:35.850 --> 00:23:38.010
Sunjay Nath: And then tactics tactics are they.

00:23:38.100 --> 00:23:48.510
Sunjay Nath: Are the path it's we're going down the street and then that's three that and one of the observations I found and i've had the opportunity to mentor speakers along this road, and over the past years and.

00:23:48.930 --> 00:24:05.250
Sunjay Nath: I find that when people come into this new ish or newer ish they tend to think they need, they need tactics they're like, no, no, I just I just need someone to make the phone ring i'm just going to show up and speak just tell me what the tagline is to get more business.

00:24:05.490 --> 00:24:14.580
Sunjay Nath: Okay, and and they often get overwhelmed because the tactics aren't as obvious when the strategy stop there.

00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:27.120
Sunjay Nath: And so we tend to go the the cliche if you go to the NSA is like houses of the world, people go I was like drinking from a fire hose, and the reason you feel that is because strategically you don't know where you're going to be.

00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:30.330
Sunjay Nath: So one tactic says if you're down this strategy go this way.

00:24:30.510 --> 00:24:35.340
Sunjay Nath: The other another tactic says go the opposite way but that's because you're using a different strategy.

00:24:35.850 --> 00:24:41.250
Sunjay Nath: So what I find is when I started going to conventions and learning and becoming a student of the game.

00:24:41.820 --> 00:24:48.360
Sunjay Nath: i'm looking for tactics, but I ended up learning strategy and, once you kind of get a strategy and you own the strategy that's The other thing too.

00:24:48.690 --> 00:24:55.530
Sunjay Nath: You may have this great strategy, but you don't feel like it's aligned with you, or you don't really feel it's authentic and but, once you own a strategy.

00:24:55.770 --> 00:25:05.130
Sunjay Nath: All of a sudden your shoulders kind of drop back and then you go to these ideas and these conventions and these gatherings and these meetings and you pick up a little tactic here and there.

00:25:05.430 --> 00:25:06.330
Sunjay Nath: And and that's where you.

00:25:06.750 --> 00:25:07.620
Sunjay Nath: Get the benefit sorry.

00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.600
Jane Atkinson: you're looking for one thing you're looking for one idea oh yeah that's it that's all I needed.

00:25:14.070 --> 00:25:20.910
Sunjay Nath: A quick little example of that so instead I was at a meeting I don't year or two ago, maybe, five years ago, whatever.

00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:29.820
Sunjay Nath: And they said in your linkedin profile, you should always write your email address, because if someone's not connected to you that.

00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:38.190
Sunjay Nath: They would have to become your friend and then you'd have to accept it, and if they want to reach out to you, for whatever reason, your your addresses their boo but if they're like well it's really good.

00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:46.440
Sunjay Nath: But that's a little tactic that doesn't change your speaking business, but if you have a pathway, and you know where you want to go, then those tactics really become helpful.

00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:54.450
Jane Atkinson: it's interesting, let me just throw some more mud into the water here, because one of the analogies that.

00:25:54.930 --> 00:26:11.700
Jane Atkinson: A coach gave me was, and this is how we sell the wealthy speaker school now was that when let's say you were baking a batch of chocolate chip cookies and i'm sure you have something funny to say about that, but you're you.

00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:20.610
Jane Atkinson: In we're comparing kind of the the batch of chocolate chip cookies to starting a speaking business well.

00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:32.400
Jane Atkinson: You wouldn't go out onto the Internet and search 10 different recipes and then take a little piece of each recipe take one ingredient from each recipe and put it together and make your own.

00:26:32.820 --> 00:26:40.560
Jane Atkinson: you'd actually follow a recipe, and so we have a recipe ready aim fire, whereas most people, one of the biggest problems.

00:26:40.920 --> 00:27:00.900
Jane Atkinson: I think in the speaking business is that people are piece mailing together their tactics and their strategy and they're not following one recipe, and so just to kind of drive that home, I think that well now i'm hungry and interested in going to.

00:27:01.770 --> 00:27:10.350
Sunjay Nath: know that that point that you make, I actually do a program where I it's an interactive thing when I get people to solve a logic puzzle.

00:27:11.100 --> 00:27:20.400
Sunjay Nath: And it's actually an individual logic puzzle like it's a one person thing, but I get them to groups of four or five and they actually have chips, and they physically have to like slide and move chips over.

00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:26.580
Sunjay Nath: And what I find is because there's one set of chips you get people doing what I call hungry hungry Hippo hands so.

00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.580
Sunjay Nath: i'm gonna start doing someone goes, so let me try it don't Let me try it.

00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:37.350
Sunjay Nath: And they're fighting for the chips, and so the language I use to the exact same point is what happens is they're bastardized in the solution.

00:27:38.010 --> 00:27:41.430
Sunjay Nath: you're not going down one pathway to see if this one works or doesn't work.

00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:47.880
Sunjay Nath: But they keep hijacking they go down this path and then this one, and then this one, and then this one and it's not a very efficient path you might get to the end.

00:27:48.210 --> 00:27:55.800
Sunjay Nath: But yeah if you have something that works, but I going if we can I love analogy so let's keep big digging on the on the cookie analogy.

00:27:56.190 --> 00:27:57.930
Sunjay Nath: Before you even look for the recipe.

00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:06.030
Sunjay Nath: There are certain things strategies that you need to be aware of, for example, you may want peanut butter chocolate chip cookies.

00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:12.120
Sunjay Nath: Or the flip side, you may be allergic to peanut butter so that's the strategy before you start looking for the tactics.

00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:21.870
Sunjay Nath: You have to go, what is it the big picture that i'm looking for Oh, I want because i'm going to a to a dinner party Oh, the dinner party well I shouldn't have done it because so many allergies to NUTS or.

00:28:22.410 --> 00:28:25.980
Sunjay Nath: You know i'm going to my BF and they obsessed with peanut butter, so I totally.

00:28:26.340 --> 00:28:37.440
Sunjay Nath: So you need the strategy before you can get the tactics, then, once you get the tactics, you want to have a blueprint that has a proven record of success, so that you don't bastardized the solution, and you get there as efficiently as possible.

00:28:37.530 --> 00:28:53.940
Jane Atkinson: This is like we just mashed together like 14 analogies into one conversation, strangely enough, I always love talking to you and I have loved watching your 27 years trajectory in this business.

00:28:54.390 --> 00:29:04.740
Jane Atkinson: i'm i'm excited for you and where you are today if people want to get in touch with you how should they connect with you on linkedin what would what's the best way to do that.

00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:11.160
Sunjay Nath: They get in touch with me is just email me, which is my my email it's Sunday at Sunday now calm.

00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:18.480
Sunjay Nath: And i'm assuming you're going to pop that up or my name shows up somewhere, but my website is my name Sunday or.

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:24.990
Sunjay Nath: If you get like a styrofoam Cup in a really long string and the give me the other end we can we can talk, we can go tech.

00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:34.860
Jane Atkinson: I love it well, thank you so much for being on the show today, by the way, I just want to put in a plug for the wealthy speaker school, we have just opened up.

00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:46.620
Jane Atkinson: A new kind of pricing to our school that has become an absolute no brainer So if you know any speakers who are looking to.

00:29:46.920 --> 00:30:03.870
Jane Atkinson: Get on the path and to earning that first hundred K and speaking definitely make sure that you check out wealthy speaker school COM, thank you all for listening Thank you sanjay for being here, and with that we will say see you soon multi speakers bye for now.


Highlights you won’t want to miss:

Sunjay is the author of The 10-80-10 Principle, The ABCs of Student Leadership, and a contributing author of the book, Professionally Speaking. His new projects include learning to sing “Row, Row, Row Your Boat” in rounds … by himself.

If you could use some tips to create your long-term business strategy, you simply can’t afford to miss this episode!

I hope you’ll download and learn. 


Sunjay’s website
Email address:
Sunjay’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s LinkedIn profile
The Wealthy Speaker School

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