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Moving Your Audience with Sally Zimney

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Quote: “It really takes courage to tell a story that will move your audience.” Sally Zimney

We know that storytelling in your speech can help create a moment in time where you fully capture the attention of your audience. These moments can be magical and transcend them to envision your story in their head. On this episode of The Wealthy Speaker Show, we’re so excited to welcome Sally Zimney to share some great ideas on how you can inject stories that will resonate with your audience on and off the stage.

Sally Z” is an award-winning TEDx speaker and speaker coach whose mission is to empower leaders to become changemakers by stepping into the spotlight. After 20+ years of honing her craft – Sally nudges people to step on stages of all kinds and speak their story with authenticity, clarity, and courage. Sally has spoken in front of thousands of people – coached hundreds of speakers – and created countless “moving moments” between speaker and audience.


Read Full Transcript

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Sally Z (she/her): Well welcome everyone to the wealthy speaker. Podcast. You know we have said for years that there is no better form of marketing than a terrific presentation. And today we're gonna talk about the art of moving your audience. Our special guest is Sally Zimney. Welcome to the show, Sally Z. Thank you, Jay, and I'm so excited to be here. Really, truly.

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Jane Atkinson: I live in Canada, is it Z. Or ZI don't even know that right Zed is so cool. I think, that I live in Minnesota. So I'm practically Canadian. I feel like, there you go. You're an honorary yeah honorary connect. So, Sally, Z. Tell everybody about kind of your business model, and how you help people. Yes. Well, I am both a speaker and a speaker coach. I love them both. I've been doing them both.

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Sally Z (she/her): really for as long as I can remember, but I also like to think of myself as a bravery expert, because ultimately, especially as we talk about moving your audience. That is

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Sally Z (she/her): the key, really, how to embody our authentic voice and do it in a way that truly connects with your audience. And it isn't just about sharing everything that you know. So I've got programs for speakers who are trying to develop that

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Sally Z (she/her): audience moving speech. And Bill, the business that supports that and I do lots of one on one coaching as well, and lots of speaking about the art of moving your audience and stepping into the brave spotlight. Whatever that means for you.

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Jane Atkinson: I you know there's something about it. When I read it in your when I was researching you. The idea of moving your audience just kind of struck me in in the heart. I think it was just.

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Jane Atkinson: you know, when you've seen a speaker and and okay. So I've been in the business for over 30 years.

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Jane Atkinson: I have seen a speaker or 2,

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Sally Z (she/her): and not all of them moved me, but the ones that did move me I still remember 30 years later. Totally. So let let me just ask you, Jane, when you think about the speakers who moved you? What was it about them that moved? Well, I'm thinking of Captain Jerry Coffee, and I've spoken about him. I've spoken about him on the podcast before

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Jane Atkinson: came to an Nsa. Convention that was very red, white, and blue, because it was in washington, DC. Naomi, Rodi is the President, and it's my first convention. Okay, so I am there

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Jane Atkinson: as a were a raw piece of clay, and I bawled through this entire conference. II mean. I do cry naturally at any National anthem or anything like that. I'm Canadian, but I'm patriotic to all of North America, really. And so

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Jane Atkinson: when Captain Jerry Coffee spoke about being a prisoner of war, and he spoke about how they communicated between their little

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Jane Atkinson: 4 by 4 cells next to the person next to them, and he talked about. They spoke in Morris code, and so he was tapping. There was a piano there because there had been a singer earlier in the night, and he tapped on the piano, and I can still remember how that sounded tapping out the Morse code that they would speak to each other, and

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Jane Atkinson: oh, I mean there was not a dry eye in the house. Talk about being moved now that wasn't. That was like a a monumental for my very first seeing an an audience move being moved

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Sally Z (she/her): that was like epic, I mean E, even now, I don't know that I have anything that tops it. What an amazing story! So as you're talking about that I'm imagining in my head. So you, sharing the story of him sharing the story. I can see it in my head. And that is really this magical sauce of moving your audiences.

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Sally Z (she/her): Communion that happens. Community is a big, strong word. But I just mean the metaphysical connection that happens between speaker and audience. And how do we build that? How do we actually feel like we are sharing this moment together that we are creating shared meaning because you weren't there.

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Sally Z (she/her): And yet you see it in your head. You imagine that you kind of created the story in your head, and it might not even like how you remember it now, and how you're sharing it. Stories evolve, don't they? They? They sort of change in through the telling. And as we keep telling and tell more, they tend to evolve because we start to insert our own experiences. What we envision. I like to as a an example I often talk about.

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Sally Z (she/her): You know the importance of specificity, and how that lights up the brain and brings it alive and helps us feel like we're creating this shared experience. And a I love words. I'm a writer, so I love words, and you just

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Sally Z (she/her): got me all excited there. Okay, yeah. So I tell the story about in first grade. I had a huge crush on Matt Rowe, and he was. He will never listen to this podcast. He's a teacher in suburban Wisconsin. He's an amazing person. In first grade. I was like, Oh, Matt Row, he's so cute. And so, because I was a little athlete, little athlete, Sally, I like to chase Matt on the playground.

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Sally Z (she/her): Yes, right. So I remember just running through those little pebbles in the playground. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch! Crunch! Running through those pebbles, and Judy, the playground ladies blowing her whistle. Sally, stop running slow down, and I would stop and say, Sorry, Miss Judy. And then, as soon as she turned around, I would start running after Matt again. Crunch, crunch, crunch! Running through

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Sally Z (she/her): the playground, through the swings around the slide. And as I tell this story, okay.

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Sally Z (she/her): what do you see in your head? I'm just curious.

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Jane Atkinson: And I'm hearing, too. I'm hearing the crunching. I'm hearing the whistle. I I'm seeing you going in the swings in the slide like I can literally

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Jane Atkinson: imagine you're doing this. So your specificity is allowing me to visualize what it is that you're speaking about, and that is the coolest. It's truly part of the magic of co-creation, because you're probably imagining your

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Sally Z (she/her): elementary school playground that you got to swing on, and you know what the scene looks like in your head is going to be probably different than it what it was for me. And that's totally okay. That's sort of ha! That's how we pass along the experience and move our audience to bring them into that magical moment. So I love your story, and the reason it comes alive is that specificity? We even remember

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Sally Z (she/her): what it sounded like on the piano, and it had I done the knocking.

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Jane Atkinson: There's something about sound that

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Jane Atkinson: I don't know. There's an experiential thing about sound. And so that's an interesting okay, this musical element where it's not just dependent on the words that we're saying. But we're really thinking about the experience that you're using. Yeah, so cool. Okay, so we wanna break it down into kind of 3 chunks for everybody. Today, we've got the moving message.

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Sally Z (she/her): We've got story first. Hopefully, I'm saying that correctly and structure. So let's start with moving message. What say you about that? Well, the moving message? And I know you talk about this, too. A lot, Jane is. I see it as this beautiful Venn diagram of 3 different circles coming together. We have who you are, the special distinctions that make you you

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Sally Z (she/her): the stories, the experiences, how you use your body like, how you hold space, all of the things that make you you.

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Sally Z (she/her): And the second circle is your audience who you're talking to, who they are, what they need, what they are going through, how they show up in the world, and we sort of put those first 2 circles together and say, Okay, how do you in particular?

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Sally Z (she/her): How do you serve that particular audience? And and that end of itself is a really important, powerful question to ask, and every time I do this with my speakers, even if they've done it before it changes, we tend to just dig a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper as you get to know your audience, and you get feedback as you're out there speaking, and they're saying to you like, you're hearing their stories. Really, it's an empathy exercise. And importantly.

00:09:52.840 --> 00:10:13.300
Sally Z (she/her): it's not just understanding your audience. But what is the thing about you that is so particular to you that can serve that audience in this way. And then the third circle, which is really important is is what's happening now, what is it about the world right now that changes and effects

00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:27.180
Sally Z (she/her): and really creates a a slightly different dynamic than just those first 2 circles together because you might speak to an education audience. And you know that audience really well.

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Sally Z (she/her): the needs of now that third circle is gonna look really different in 2,024 than it did in 2,020. And then it did in even 2023. So we're always have to. That third circle is really really important. To make sure that we are. When we show up there.

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Sally Z (she/her): When we are embodying this message, we can be truly present with the people, so that we can create that shared meaning and understanding together.

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Jane Atkinson: I love it, and I love that you started from a place of service. If if this isn't already in your DNA, remember that it's not about you.

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Sally Z (she/her): Yeah.

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Jane Atkinson: you're there to serve. And I think that when we remember that I was. I did a

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Jane Atkinson: post the other day about on on Facebook, about Madonna getting sued for starting 2 h late.

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and I really do think that that generation of diva, like

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Jane Atkinson: behaviors, is very different from the new generation, like, I don't think Taylor Swift would ever do that. I am so I really study her, her business and her. You know I've

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II it's just very interesting to me, and I think her

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Jane Atkinson: her swift days would call her on it as well like. Come on where the heck are. You and this diva, like behavior would only happen once, and then she would take it in, and it wouldn't happen again. And so I, people are saying, Yeah, well, if you were you know this kind of level of fame, you could do whatever you want. You could write your own rules. Well, I think that Madonna has forgotten who it's about.

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Sally Z (she/her): Yeah. And it's not about her and her diva dum, and if I personally would not wait 2 h, it's super interesting a. A. And I think you're right. There is probably some generational differences there, but I find, too, you know, the speakers, especially if you're if you're emerging. If you're new to this, we tend to feel this push and pull like we need enough ego to say I have something to say

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Sally Z (she/her): long on stage. II know I can be, have a powerful impact

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Sally Z (she/her): to people, and yet

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Sally Z (she/her): not so much ego that we forget that honestly, we're we're the. We're the vessel. We're we're there, truly, in service to them, and if we cannot get out of our own way and be present with people they're gonna leave. They're not gonna wait 2 h. They don't care.

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Jane Atkinson: That's right. That's exactly right. And yeah, II think that I don't know why I brought that up. But I just think that it's really important to come from a place of service, no matter how big and famous.

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Sally Z (she/her): You know I and I think the really, when you are really, truly there for them.

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Jane Atkinson: or you're just doing their thing. It's your show. And then you're leaving. Yeah, and especially for someone who's trying to remain relevant. So sorry missed the boat. Okay, so we've got we've talked about your moving message. Is there anything else before we move? Move on to story first?

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Sally Z (she/her): No, I

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Jane Atkinson: II think we covered that. Well, okay on to story, first, talk about that.

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Sally Z (she/her): Yeah. So we we started this podcast talking about stories because they're so and we know this sticky, they're important.

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Sally Z (she/her): And we've been talking about stories forever, like stories are important. We all need stories. Well, what I have learned over the years, and I actually got my masters in persuaded and studied stories, studied the the magical power of stories.

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Sally Z (she/her): that it's not just about inserting some stories to break up all of your experty insights and advice.

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Sally Z (she/her): but they play a really powerful role in helping people take abstract ideas and make them personal and meaningful. To give this concept that you care so much about this message you care so much about to give it legs, a a beating heart and experience that resonates and relates and so we know stories are important. One of the things that I

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Sally Z (she/her): think is so fascinating is the impact that they have is dependent on where you put that story where it exists in your talk where it exists. Even the stories that you are telling yourself that hold you back from stepping out front, that actually from doing the thing telling the story that you are like. Can I really tell this story? Is this a story like

00:15:24.780 --> 00:15:31.449
Sally Z (she/her): like the it takes courage? It really takes courage to tell a story that will move your audience. And so

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Sally Z (she/her): story first is in some ways I talk about story first as a theoretical like belief system. It's story. First, we've got to let stories be more of the driver for us in our content, but also very technically, I want you to start with story story before idea.

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Sally Z (she/her): If you watch a lot of speakers, they tend to use stories as the proof.

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Sally Z (she/her): I'm gonna tell you my information. I'm gonna offer all my insights. Here's all the here's the things the ideas that I want you to hold onto. And you're gonna say, as an example, right? And then you go into your story.

00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:18.520
Sally Z (she/her): And the story is proof. You're like, Okay, alright. But the powerful idea around a story first concept is before they even know what your point is. They feel your point.

00:16:18.640 --> 00:16:19.740
Jane Atkinson: Hmm.

00:16:19.820 --> 00:16:34.229
Sally Z (she/her): So I'm thinking that you're encouraging people to open with a story. Am I? Am I right on that? Yeah, I mean sometimes that's not the right choice. But on the whole, I'd love for people to

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Sally Z (she/her): investigate for themselves like.

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Sally Z (she/her): where are my stories. Am I using them as proof, or can they be a curiosity inducer? Can they be the thing that we're instead of having to pull people back in with the story. We just have them right from moment one start with story.

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Sally Z (she/her): You're easing your way in some really powerful ways. And the the science backs it. The storytelling science really, truly backs it. It's so fun to watch and see. I love the term curiosity inducer. I just made that up, Jane this moment you should put it in your name.

00:17:16.230 --> 00:17:23.120
Sally Z (she/her): I guess I was kind of impressed with my honesty. I was like, oh, really good! Because if

00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:38.690
Jane Atkinson: you have me curious from Hello, then I'm leaning in, and especially if you're not starting with oh, it's nice to be in Minneapolis today, you know.

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Jane Atkinson: Thank goodness, we it stopped snowing. Right?

00:17:42.520 --> 00:18:03.960
Jane Atkinson: Yeah. How often? Or boy, that was a rousing thing that happened last night, you know. Everybody's probably hung over that, you know. I think when you launch into a story that may provoke thought

00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:15.630
Jane Atkinson: that may induce curiosity, that you are immediately capturing the audience, you're immediately having them

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Jane Atkinson: say, you know, oh, I'll come along with you. Yeah. And what's so magical about it to me? Jane is

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Sally Z (she/her): the people who can hold that space from moment one you have automatic respect.

00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:33.239
Sally Z (she/her): You are leaning in so hard because, like Whoa.

00:18:33.290 --> 00:18:39.240
Sally Z (she/her): there's a level of power and leadership, and not that it has to start serious and not that it's gonna be like.

00:18:39.380 --> 00:19:06.719
Sally Z (she/her): Hello! You know it. It doesn't have to be that. But there is this moment of I'm gonna pull everybody into me instead of the kind of slow ride in that we tend to take where it's like, hey, Buddy, exactly what you're talking. We can show appreciation. We can have joy and and feel the energy of the room without saying any of that start with a story.

00:19:06.750 --> 00:19:12.569
Sally Z (she/her): It's like the every part of the brain goes. Wait, wait! Wait! What? I don't know what's gonna happen here

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Sally Z (she/her): instead of tuning out, cause we know generally the chit chat I call the chit chat. It's like all the chit chat. They're not really listening to you, because, you know, it's not that important, or they're thinking about their phone, or whatever it might be. You know, transition time, she hasn't really started. Yeah, I'm gonna give a second. And yet, as soon as people tell us story. They're like, Oh, it started. Oh, now we're in now we're in it.

00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:43.580
Jane Atkinson: Now. Do you recommend doing anything in the introduction that would

00:19:43.690 --> 00:20:01.460
Sally Z (she/her): to, you know, Peek, the curiosity of the story that you're gonna open with. I have found today. Most people don't do intros. Well.

00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:23.879
Sally Z (she/her): and so I spend a lot of time training the people who are introing me on how to do intros. Not a lot of time. But but that's part part part of the setup. It's really important, and most of the time the intro, like you can't depend on it necessarily to do some of that for you. I think it's a great idea, not too much of the heavy lifting.

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Jane Atkinson: Okay? So we've covered moving message and story. First, let's talk next about structure, because I really feel like you're gonna have something

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unique and interesting to tell us about.

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Sally Z (she/her): You know the importance of where you place your stories. Yeah.

00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:57.409
Sally Z (she/her): And it's not just where you place your stories, but all the places where speaking can fit in your business, and I know we are talking to revenue generating speakers who are really focused on.

00:20:57.550 --> 00:21:01.470
Sally Z (she/her): On how to grow that part of their business

00:21:01.540 --> 00:21:13.349
Sally Z (she/her): earn more money as a speaker, and I applaud that wholeheartedly. That's a big part of what I do and what I'll I'm all about as well, and I think we tend to under recognize

00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:28.400
Sally Z (she/her): all of the speaking, quote, unquote speaking that we do day in and day out, and the ways in which we can serve our audience in the everyday, not just when we're on stage, but what are all of the other ways that we are building up our own authority

00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:40.299
Sally Z (she/her): as a thought leader, as an expert, as a person who doesn't just hold information that they can get for free on the Internet at any time.

00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:45.339
Sally Z (she/her): But how are you building that connection into your audience?

00:21:46.700 --> 00:22:02.539
Sally Z (she/her): When you're not on stage, what does it look like when you can show up and serve and lead and offer wisdom and insight? So one of the things I talk a lot about is, it's our job as speakers to bring perspective

00:22:02.550 --> 00:22:17.810
Sally Z (she/her): like, that's what we're being paid for. It is not just we're getting paid for that big wow moment on stage, or you're getting paid for that, you know. Deep dive experience.

00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:26.320
Sally Z (she/her): you know, as a speaker. But it's really, truly about the way in which you are shaping, thinking, and shaping the future.

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Sally Z (she/her): And so perspective and stories go together. So it's not just about becoming an awesome storyteller. It's like, what are those? How can you in the everyday

00:22:38.120 --> 00:22:51.430
Sally Z (she/her): have what I call story eyes like? Just be looking around seeing them? How do you pull insight from the experiences that you're having, just like you did with the Madonna piece. It's like, you know, this is a point of view piece

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Sally Z (she/her): that is story based. And when we can leverage stories in that way and think about the structure of how we show up to offer that insight, it can be really, truly an authority builder that's gonna help your speaking business, but also just deep in that connection. And as you move your audience, I love that. So okay.

00:23:13.610 --> 00:23:25.389
Jane Atkinson: let's start at the beginning of, say, a cycle with a prospective client. The email number one that you send to them

00:23:25.450 --> 00:23:29.499
Jane Atkinson: might contain some story absolutely

00:23:29.530 --> 00:23:47.110
Jane Atkinson: as can email number 2 and email number 3. Then if you get a a discovery call going with them. Perhaps there's some story telling involved in the communication that you have in selling them on

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Jane Atkinson: a presentation that might be given by you absolutely. Then, as you're preparing to go and do the engagement, there might be some story sharing that happens along the way. Maybe there's a story that you talk to the AV. Team about when you're on site and doing the AV. Check

00:24:05.810 --> 00:24:12.019
Sally Z (she/her): absolutely. Maybe there's stories from the presentation that you take into the post

00:24:12.120 --> 00:24:36.770
Jane Atkinson: meetings where you're talking to them about next steps. So there's opportunities at all of these places. When you're sending out a a blog post or delivering a podcast for just straight up marketing. Maybe you're telling stories in those you show up on social media to to help build the credibility and authority of what you're doing.

00:24:36.800 --> 00:24:51.289
Sally Z (she/her): Are you leveraging storytelling in that way? Story plus structure come together and can do really magical things. I love all of that, Jane. I think. What the belief underneath that what we have to sort of

00:24:51.320 --> 00:25:13.080
Sally Z (she/her): open the lid and acknowledge and talk about. Is there maybe some resistance to that? Do we really need storytelling, else? I don't want to waste people's time we just w like, can I just get right to it? Does it become too much? Do I have any stories to tell? There's a lot of internal trash thinking often, sometimes around this stuff.

00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:15.520
Sally Z (she/her): And the

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Sally Z (she/her): I think the thing to recognize is when you become a fully dimensional human being, sooner and earlier in the process of working with you. Right? You're setting yourself up for ongoing retention referrals

00:25:31.530 --> 00:25:38.000
Sally Z (she/her): relationship. This is we're building relationship through storytelling. When you think about it from a business perspective?

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Jane Atkinson: What is it, Sally, that makes people default to teaching when they're actually on the

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Sally Z (she/her): why? Do you think it's just so natural for us to launch into teach well, it's less vulnerable that's part of it storytelling is vulnerable, because if you're doing it, right, it's personal.

00:26:02.490 --> 00:26:11.889
Sally Z (she/her): and you're risking something by opening up and sharing a little bit about who you are. I'm not. You don't have to share at all. It's not.

00:26:12.120 --> 00:26:17.849
Sally Z (she/her): It's not a not everybody gets that, and that's totally fine. Everybody gets full access to you.

00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:23.559
Sally Z (she/her): And yet, if you want to lead, if you really want to shape perspective.

00:26:23.810 --> 00:26:30.000
Sally Z (she/her): They want to understand who you are, not just what you know, because

00:26:30.090 --> 00:26:32.490
Sally Z (she/her): they can get the information.

00:26:32.530 --> 00:26:52.279
Jane Atkinson: No new information was something I heard 30 years ago in the industry, and it's not become any less true now, because guess what? There's an AI bot out there that who could give the speech that you just gave.

00:26:52.350 --> 00:27:20.539
Sally Z (she/her): But the differences, especially when we embody and allow our authentic voice to be a part of this, and and share more about who we are. Through stories. You come, you become a real person for people, and it's not just a flashy title, but it's real deep connection. And that's where you start to move your audience. And it's a different goal. Then I want to impress the audience.

00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:48.019
Sally Z (she/her): It's a different goal. And you're gonna get different things. If that is your goal. If you wanna impress the audience, you're much less likely to share a story about your failure. You're much less likely to share a story about when things were hard, and and set yourself up as the hero. But when we say my goal is to move this audience and and know that through a resonant experience together they're gonna come with me

00:27:48.530 --> 00:27:55.540
Sally Z (she/her): right? They're gonna they're going to recognize the humanness in my experience and want to walk with me on that.

00:27:56.020 --> 00:28:10.030
Jane Atkinson: So the F stories, the failure stories, are something that I think is very endearing to an audience, because who can't relate to that. And

00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:21.829
Jane Atkinson: Sure, you could probably be a hero in one of your stories later on. But I think when you open on a failure. It kind of sets the stage for some vulnerability. How.

00:28:22.150 --> 00:28:26.729
Jane Atkinson: let's say, somebody did some stuff in their life

00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.529
Jane Atkinson: way, way, way previous, and

00:28:31.780 --> 00:28:32.490
Jane Atkinson: like.

00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:54.239
Jane Atkinson: how much do you encourage people to share? Do you put any kind of boundaries around it? We know that we don't want therapy on stage. If you haven't healed from whatever the thing is, then you probably need to wait on it. But what other boundaries can you give for people to say, you know, where

00:28:54.560 --> 00:29:03.369
Sally Z (she/her): where should they draw the line? It's such an important question, and I know you've probably grappled with the concept of. We share our

00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:29.660
Sally Z (she/her): our scars, not our scabs. I think Brene Brown said, that, you know, and II think that's a super helpful way to think about that right like if it's still itchy and you're still just like Oh, I don't even know what I think about this yet. Some value in telling it, but it's that is not for the audience that's free, that's free, and you're not serving your audience in that. So, assuming that it is

00:29:29.670 --> 00:29:44.550
Sally Z (she/her): a S. A scar like, it's enough in the past that you have some wisdom from that. Then the question I like to say is the way in which you're telling it. Can you tell it in a way so that your audience doesn't worry about you.

00:29:44.850 --> 00:30:12.079
Sally Z (she/her): Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Cause if they start worrying about you, they are taken out of the story, and they're not getting anything from it for themselves. They're just going. Oh, my gosh! Oh, no! Oh, no! So I I'm thinking back, Jane to the store you started with, and the general talking about that. You know he's okay. He's out. He's not in the cell. And Captain Jerry Coffee made it out alive.

00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:39.150
Sally Z (she/her): and went on to live a beautiful life, and retired in Hawaii. And but just yes, you're not worried about him, because, you know he made it out, cause he's there telling the story, and not to say that emotion isn't welcome in that. But you've got to be able to manage that emotion in a way that we we can feel it with you. But we're not taken out of the story.

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:42.490
Jane Atkinson: Oh, I really love that tip

00:30:42.760 --> 00:30:52.310
Jane Atkinson: not having the audience worry about you now on the polar opposite of that is, when people

00:30:52.400 --> 00:31:05.539
Jane Atkinson: pop up out of the misery too quickly, right? They don't wanna roll around in the muck for too long uncomfortable for them, because so they just like poop

00:31:05.570 --> 00:31:34.959
Jane Atkinson: so I was you know, thrown in jail and da da da da. And then, 5 years later, I was out and doing great. Can we get a little bit of the misery, please? I wanna feel what it felt like to hear the clinking of the bars closing behind you. Yes, yeah. What a missed opportunity to bring people into the moment

00:31:35.590 --> 00:31:46.420
Sally Z (she/her): right. The moment where we feel with you. We want to feel with you. We just don't want to be overwhelmed or like, I said, worry about you in that moment.

00:31:46.510 --> 00:32:15.869
Sally Z (she/her): And III think, kind of what you're saying is, and this is this is one of those like truth truths about speaking, is, it brings up all the things right that you haven't dealt with, that the the inner work that needs to be done to be able to really show up and allow yourself to be seen. It is hard. So if if there was somebody I was working with who was like just moving through that too quickly. Right? W. We're gonna slow them down.

00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:23.920
Sally Z (she/her): Don't don't rush us through this. We want to be with you in this moment. We need to be able to see it in our heads and feel it. That is the

00:32:23.950 --> 00:32:34.609
Sally Z (she/her): the beauty, the persuasive beauty of storytelling is when we can see it in our heads, and when we are feeling it with you. And that is probably that person's

00:32:34.730 --> 00:32:53.610
Sally Z (she/her): like inner work. It might be a skill thing, but most likely it is like you said just a anyway. I don't want people to think of me this way anymore. I don't want. I don't want to get stuck there. I don't. I'm in any RAM 7. So I'm like, totally feel like, I don't want to get stuck in the negative emotion.

00:32:54.700 --> 00:33:11.229
Jane Atkinson: But I'm also a theater person stage, I'm like, Oh, no, you wanna soak that moment. Let us sit here with you. Okay, let's talk about the stage for a second, because you are a theater person, I feel we would be remiss not to discuss

00:33:11.290 --> 00:33:19.280
Jane Atkinson: how to give me some broad strokes about using all 4 corners of the state

00:33:19.290 --> 00:33:28.810
Sally Z (she/her): your power position. Talk a little bit about that, because theater people really know that stuff way way more than us. Non.

00:33:29.620 --> 00:33:52.629
Sally Z (she/her): yeah. Well, I have an interesting background. So I was taught I was. I did theater, and I have been on stage as a an actor for a really long time loved it. I just loved loved to feel the lights I could always find here. You want to find your light. I could just find the hotspot under the light loved it, and I was also coached

00:33:52.630 --> 00:33:59.910
Sally Z (she/her): in high school speech by truly the best coaches in the country organ, like national speech and Debate

00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:23.330
Sally Z (she/her): Association is basically run by them. They are just truly the most skilled, skilled people, and I think those are 2 sides of very 2 different sides of the same coin to know that and learn the finesse and the polish of speaking, but also have the experience of what is it like to really embody

00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:40.889
Sally Z (she/her): the stage and do it in a way that is grounded in your way of being. Your voice, the authentic way that you move through the space and it it. They're they're different enough that it took me a while to kind of let go of the finesse and the

00:34:41.080 --> 00:34:46.510
Sally Z (she/her): exactness, the precision of move here, then and

00:34:47.110 --> 00:35:10.249
Sally Z (she/her): gesture like this, the things that are ultimately the great price school speech, but not for connecting with your audience, your audience, and and really also feeling the sense of freedom that we feel when we are in the moment on stage, and being intentional with how we move. So, finding that balance has been the work of.

00:35:10.250 --> 00:35:30.149
Sally Z (she/her): you know. That's becoming a professional speaker like how do we? How? How can we, Persi be precise and polished, and professional, and present and free. Oh, that's what we're going for. There's a term in in the bones that it's a coaching term, actually

00:35:30.220 --> 00:35:51.630
Jane Atkinson: your plans so, and your stories so in your bones that you can be there in the moment, and not worry and be thinking in your head of where am I going next? You know it's so well you can know it so well, and that's a case as

00:35:51.980 --> 00:36:09.569
Jane Atkinson: I'm sure you encourage all of your clients to do is for rehearsal, you know. Make sure that you are that you have it in your bones because it actually gives you freedom, and and I've I've seen Ted Talks that felt

00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:17.369
Jane Atkinson: rehearsed not so much in the bones that it didn't feel

00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:39.570
Sally Z (she/her): like I was seeing the rehearsal. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yes, yes, yes, they're still in their head. It hasn't really fully gotten into their body yet. The bones I call it integration, like, what's the difference between memorization and integration, you know, it's so well that you can scrap the plan and still deliver

00:36:39.570 --> 00:36:52.769
Sally Z (she/her): the needed message. Like you, you can, Riff, you can improvise, based on what is happening in the room, and you've got your key lines down. It is in you. It's in your bones. I think that is such a

00:36:52.770 --> 00:37:00.970
Sally Z (she/her): beautiful concept, and it takes time to get there. You actually have to reverse. But I also think how you rehearse really matters.

00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:05.649
Sally Z (she/her): Okay, talk about that. So it's really, truly not just.

00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:27.470
Sally Z (she/her): I'm going to review this and do the same thing again and again and again. What we have to practice is the the stumbling. So I call my rehearsal stumblethroughs like we are going to invite in. I want you to get up on your feet before you're ready before it's comfortable before it's memorized. I want you to figure it out in your body.

00:37:27.470 --> 00:37:39.890
Sally Z (she/her): because, as you know, as we talk about, like using your authentic voice and body on the stage, and really fully using this stage that comes from self trust that comes from being in such a deep place

00:37:40.020 --> 00:37:46.719
Sally Z (she/her): of self trust that you know things are not going to go exactly how you planned.

00:37:46.950 --> 00:37:57.660
Sally Z (she/her): And that's okay. You can handle it. You can be present, really, truly present in the moment. So we you start before you're ready in your rehearsal process. Get up on your feet. It's

00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.689
Sally Z (she/her): embrace the awkward of it all.

00:38:01.100 --> 00:38:13.830
Jane Atkinson: and it will help you personalize your content faster and get it in the bones faster. Oh, I love it! I love it. Stumble through such a good term.

00:38:13.900 --> 00:38:21.259
Jane Atkinson: Okay, you have written a book. Your most recent book is called What

00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.070
Sally Z (she/her): Speaking Story

00:38:23.220 --> 00:38:41.860
Sally Z (she/her): It's all about the persuasive magical power of stories, and how to leverage them. Not just as a speaker. This is a leadership book in lots of ways, but there are so many goodies in here for speakers, because I work with so many speakers and yes.

00:38:42.100 --> 00:38:58.499
Jane Atkinson: awesome. And your website is B. Yes, MOVE Now, is there anything? If if people wanted to kind of get to know Sally Z. Where? What? What's the best first step?

00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:22.809
Sally Z (she/her): Well, I think, grabbing the book is an awesome first step, and getting to know me, my voice, my approach, and also hopefully, really garnering some of this extra magical juice around storytelling, because I know you know, it's important. But what are the things we can do to really up, level it to more deeply impact and move our audience. So you can find it over on my website

00:39:22.810 --> 00:39:47.740
Sally Z (she/her): website at Bemovetcom. Beautiful. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us today, Sally.

00:39:47.740 --> 00:40:10.770
Jane Atkinson: I just have so much respect and admiration for what you do and how you do it, and it's been such a delight to be on here. Oh, beautiful! And if you're tuning in, hey? Let us know what you thought. Reach out Jane at Speaker Launchercom. I would love to hear some feedback, and with that we're gonna say wealthy speakers, bye, for now everyone.

Highlights you won’t want to miss:

  • How Sally helps speakers. [1:00]
  • Specificity… [6:00]
  • You’re here to serve. [12:00]
  • The role that story plays. [14:00]
  • Building your connection off stage.  [21:00]
  • Storytelling is vulnerable. [26:00]
  • Roll around in the mud a little. [31:30]
  • How you rehearse matters. [36:00]

Sally is the host of This Moved Me (a “New & Noteworthy” Apple Podcast about the art of moving your audience), which sits in the world’s top 2% of podcasts. Sally is listed in the top 3% of Women in Business speakers by And her book, Speaking Story, came out in February 2024. 

If you would like to learn how you can move your audience with a great story, you simply can’t afford to miss this episode!

I hope you’ll listen and learn.


Sally’s website
Sally’s book
This Moved Me (Sally’s podcast)
Sally’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s books
The Wealthy Speaker School

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