Quote: “It’s not just about making money. It’s about adding value.” Greg Schinkel
Exactly what are you bringing to the table? Do you feel like you’re giving your clients great value for their money, or do you think there’s room for improvement? On this episode of The Wealthy Speaker Show, we are happy to welcome back Greg Schinkel to share his expertise on what it takes to give your clients the impact and value that they need and deserve.
Greg owns and operates two training companies, Unique Training & Development in Canada, which he bought in 1992 and Front Line Leadership Systems USA in Michigan, which he founded in 2017. He’s also a Certified Speaking Professional – a designation held by only 10% of speakers and trainers in the Global Speakers Federation. Greg has impacted more than 500,000 people through his writing, speaking, training and broadcasting.
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Jane Atkinson: Well welcome everyone to the wealthy speaker, Podcast. We're through your tuning into us today, and we have Greg Shankel back to talk about being a high value. High impact Speaker: Welcome back to the show, Greg
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Greg Schinkel: Jane. It's a pleasure. It's nice to be invited back, you know. The first time is always a fluke, and when you come back enough times it feels special.
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Jane Atkinson: That's nice, and we don't have a jacket for you of any kind of like they do on snl. I'm so free. But we do certainly appreciate you. Now, if anybody would like to check out some previous, we actually had
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Jane Atkinson: at least one podcast that the topic was getting to a 1 million dollars, which I think people might want to go back and check out. So go to Speaker launcher.com
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Jane Atkinson: click on the podcast, and there is a search button there. You want Greg Shenko. So, Greg lots. We've been documenting your business, and I've been watching. I've had a bird's eye view of the evolution. You and I are in the same city. We meet not as frequently post Covid as we used to, but we make
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Jane Atkinson: a few times a year for breakfast, and I get to catch up. And last time we met I thought, okay, we need to talk about some of this stuff on the podcast, because I think it's really helpful to other people.
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Greg Schinkel: Talk about your evolution like what's changed. Say in the last 2 to 3 years.
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Greg Schinkel: shook the shook the snow globe up. Pretty good for everybody, I think, in this business, and and and and we scrambled like everybody did, to go on the virtual, but really actually a couple of things have been evolving for us. We've always been trying to think about. First of all, we want to be positioned
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from a price and value standpoint, to be at the middle to upper end of the spectrum, for what people might be willing to pay for leadership training. So we we primarily our businesses, training supervisors and manufacturing on how to be effective supervisors and team leaders, and we have some really big companies that have signed on with us.
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but the issue that's always nodded us, and it really came to light, even on even some very recent conversations is just this issue. Of
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Greg Schinkel: what difference, even if we make them a better leader? And the quality of their conversations and interactions goes up. What does it mean for the actual performance of the business?
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Greg Schinkel: And even if I go back a year ago we had done this really massive project for this big company where we had trained several 100 people.
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Greg Schinkel: and then they got acquired by this other company, also in the construction material space, but privately held, and I went to Atlanta, and I pitched the senior team, and there was a question that they asked me which is stuck with me ever since then they Basically, said.
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Greg Schinkel: How much can you tell us as to whether your training will actually improve our financial and operational performance? And I didn't really have a a great question but what i'd asked them before that, as I said, you guys have so many operations, probably hundreds of locations where you have like either really tiny
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locations that are run by kind of one or 2 people. And then you've got some really large facilities that have, you know, dozens or hundreds of employees. And I said, let me ask you this
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Greg Schinkel: when you, when you think, because these are the senior operations, executives and the Cfo. And I said, in your opinion, is there any difference between the quality of the leader
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Greg Schinkel: and the performance of the business? Right? And they said, Yes, and I said so later, when they challenged me, I said, Well, I gotta tell you the same thing you just told me is, you've noticed that generally the businesses that perform better have leaders who behave better or or differently.
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Greg Schinkel: and it does beg the question why we tolerate such a wide range of leadership capabilities when we know it's affecting the bottom line, but I still didn't have that linkage.
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Greg Schinkel: But it was gnawing on me for this last year. So of course this is all to me. You know, people should know this is 31 years where I've really only made any serious money in this business for the last 10 years.
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and
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Greg Schinkel: and it's not just about making money. It's about adding value. So my biggest quest right now is it's all about value like, and and I know that if you're somebody starting out in the industry and you're hustling for gigs, you think it's all about transactions, and I gotta tell you what the customers are craving is transformation.
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and they're craving it now more than ever, because what Covid did is it really did, I think, shake people up into realizing that they weren't going to go through the same motions that they'd always done out of habit, and they're now more susceptible
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Greg Schinkel: to people who want to actually affect change, because I think we're all looking for deeper meaning. That's why we also I I don't know about you, Jane. I'm more easily aggravated today than I have been at any time in my life, and i'm a pretty easy going person.
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Greg Schinkel: so i'm like going. Why am I getting so aggravated? And it's because my tolerance, for what I see is non-value, added Bs is at an all time low, and by the way, including with customers.
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So the old Greg would have been like, oh, sure, you want to buy some training. Absolutely. Here's what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, look at us, Aren't. We let's 5 5 each other right, and it's like
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Greg Schinkel: now. It's like No.
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Greg Schinkel: i'm not. I don't want to just sell training. We either make a difference, or we shouldn't work together, and I think what that does. Now people again who who listen, who are like in the sales training and that sort of thing will recognize that as being a bit of a what we would call the challenger sales approach, which is Don't. Just be an order taker. Who's who's filling a box? Because as soon as you do that your commodity, even if you think you're special, remember to the customer.
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Greg Schinkel: I know when people inquire with us, they're like, yeah, we're looking at training with you guys and a couple of others. and I immediately want to break that frame of reference. Because just so, you know, if you're just looking for training. Please buy from the other guys right? And but if you're looking to make a difference, then please let's continue this conversation, because and then what clearly happens, Jane, in these discussions, especially lately.
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Jane Atkinson: is that it immediately puts us into the category of one. Thank you, Joe Kavanaugh. Here I think he gives you credit. You give him credit, but it's like as soon as you challenge someone
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Greg Schinkel: in a way that no one, no other person they're speaking to is going to do that, but get real really quickly. I just think you have the opportunity to drive really high value, and therefore high results.
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Jane Atkinson: and the first rule of negotiation which at the beginning of a sales comp. You know conversation. You're not exactly there yet
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Jane Atkinson: is to be detached from the outcome.
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Jane Atkinson: and with this kind of more nonchalant approach, but at the same time, because you want to effect change, and I think
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Jane Atkinson: that, and that's one of Joe's who wrote the book, by the way, called becoming a category of one Joe's, One of his first pieces of information to the client was, I don't actually know if i'm. So let's just have a conversation.
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Jane Atkinson: And so he immediately detaches from the outcome like you're detaching from the outcome.
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Jane Atkinson: and you're in a much stronger position forward, because if you don't get the business, you are not going to be crushed.
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Jane Atkinson: And you know, I think also what you talked about in there for bureau's is something to think about, too.
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Jane Atkinson: Do you want to be an order taker and a commodity? Or do you really want to dive deeply into. Why, your clients want this in the first place, and I I think that it's easy to
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Jane Atkinson: yeah you. You raise a good point, which you know in our case we don't because we're not at this point doing a lot of keynotes. But I might actually come back to that, Jane. The advice you gave me way back in 22,004 and 5 might resurrect itself, because I might be interested in doing higher end keynotes in manufacturing conferences with senior level decision makers
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whether it's at a high fee or not. But it's like I, just because it. Those are Those are my new people. I used to believe that the Hr. Crowd was my people, and they still love us. But now it's it's the senior operating people that i'm finding
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a and just to give people hope. I gotta tie this back to your bureau comment eventually, but I just find that anyone who's an intermediary. So in our case an intermediary might be an Hr person in the case of a speaker selling a keynote. It might be a bureau, so you're already sort of disconnected from the end client in a way at first, at least, because
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you know, in my case the Hr person doesn't have a budget. Usually it's like it's they're just been sent sent on a shopping excursion to find someone we call them the scouts. Now, some of those scouts actually do have buying authority, which is fine, but a lot of times the person making the decision. It would be somebody that we would have never even met.
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Greg Schinkel: But I think that if the
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Greg Schinkel: understand, I guess, as a speaker, and this is me not having bureau, so i'm i'm sticking my neck out here.
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Greg Schinkel: The bureau's job is to is to make their client happy. Right? But also, if a Bureau doesn't have them as an exclusive, they may also be competing against other options that that client has. It depends again whether the bureau's been given that piece of business to place or not.
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Greg Schinkel: But then, if I was a speaker, I I now have to recognize that I have to add value to the bureau while they're adding value to their client, and I need to share with them that look. We have something that I think goes beyond.
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Greg Schinkel: Yes, the client wants a speech, and quite frankly, you're looking at across the category of all these innovation speakers, or you know futurists or sales or leaders fill in the blank. By the way, if anyone feels extra special, just type in what you speak about, and just see how many other hundreds of people come up, and then you'd realize at that point you're a commodity. So then, the question is, how are you going to break through the commodity both in the Bureau's perception, but also in the bureau, and how their position with their customer. So if I go, look, there's tons of people that you could hire in the in the price span that you're looking for.
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Who could probably deliver this keynote, which is interesting just to say that, like, I say to people who are looking for leadership training, I bet if you look at enough of our websites, you'd say, all the bullets look the same cause. They do.
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Greg Schinkel: We all are teaching communications, motivation, retention, talent, conflict, blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah. So that is actually not the issue here. The issue here is: who is going to surround those bullet points with the right process that actually delivers value to the customer. Just ask yourself, Mr. Mrs. Bureau
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Greg Schinkel: representative. What if that client said? Not only was it good value for the fee that we paid the keynote, but the amount of impact that they had on the organization, and their willingness to actually go deeper into what the real issues were and what the real solutions were
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Greg Schinkel: was game changing for us. And so the fact that I want to position you as a bureau as being seen as a game changing partner to this end customer.
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And now. By the way, friends, if you're going, he is spinning such a line of Bs right now. I just need you to understand that you don't always have to connect exactly a to B
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Greg Schinkel: to be seen in a different way from a perception standpoint. because most people are too afraid to even talk about it the fact that you're willing to even understand that the client is trying to affect a change in their organization through this event, at which you will be the speaker, and you're either going to be a catalyst for that change and help drive the results from it.
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or you're just gonna be another flu fluff on the ocean of of neat stories and insights. And so my suggestion for everybody is.
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Greg Schinkel: even if it's a bold step forward. Try to see what you will do even to try to move the agenda forward from the clients perspective, even to ask about what the agenda is, and even to to to even be so bold as to say that you're going to to impact that in some way.
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Jane Atkinson: I think that's really important. Think about moving from a commodity where you are filling a slot in a conference
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Jane Atkinson: to some sort of transformational advantage that you can offer up your client, and and that is going to be. I'm wondering, Greg. This is just an idea I just thought of for you.
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Jane Atkinson: If you want to bring back the idea of the keynote as the rain Maker. And what if you?
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Jane Atkinson: What if you took your book of business that you have right now.
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Jane Atkinson: and only looked backward and worked on the people that you already have, because you have some new offerings, now that you
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Greg Schinkel: I have 2 years ago, for sure.
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Greg Schinkel: or or Jane, or and, by the way, so so you're right. From a commodity which I was called from transactions to transformation, or what we're showing on our product roadmap now to customers is from training to transformation, right? Because
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we can sell you training and and training is certainly where people start with us, no matter what. And and by the way, Seldom does anyone want to step in and sign a 1 million dollar contract. So we're very open ended. Let's start with one project with one group in one location, and then our pricing is all very variable, anyway, so that they can buy as much as they want right? So i'm never again. Just like you say I don't really.
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Greg Schinkel: I mean, I hope, that people buy from us. But i'm not desperate in any way. But then, if you go back, if you go back to your comment.
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Greg Schinkel: This is so. We we always sold a a wide menu, and and many of your audience members probably have a fairly wide menu of potential things that they could either deliver, you know, and they probably have delivered little bits and pieces of them to different clients and different projects. But what we did recently that started to change the conversation is, we did put it on a product roadmap.
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and so in one page visual. Now we can show that, you know. Here's the Here's the things we could do to help you solve an immediate organizational issue that will, you know, at least fix what you're trying to fix right now. But I want you to see that there's a bigger picture in the in the future which is transformation.
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and that is, if you want an organization that people love working for, that drives results in value like never before.
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Greg Schinkel: Once we prove ourselves on this little, that little, this. This is Pilot Project that you have then just know that we have this.
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Greg Schinkel: Now, Jane, to your point. We have, like hundreds of people in our database, and many of them I, in fact, I took over my business from my dad, who just turned 91 is writing his memoirs, by the way.
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and and you'll remember that when you and I first worked together it was kind of still surrounding I'd been running the business on my own, but having still stumbling around finding my lane.
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Greg Schinkel: But I I will. I will say this, that we've tended to be a love them, and leave them type of sales organization which is, oh, love, you sign the contract. We work with them sometimes for 3 or 4 years, and then you know what happens.
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Greg Schinkel: The regime changes. This key decision. Makers move on, and suddenly the people who loved you aren't there anymore, and they've gone on to the next thing, the next Leadership Training company. The next person who speaks on that or the next book that they bought at the airport, bookstore
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Greg Schinkel: mit ctl. And so what I've done recently is, I've gone back to some of the senior executives who I've run into over the years, who I probably never even stayed in touch with, and just on linkedin. I'm sending them a note that says one. you know. Hey? I remember we did this project with you back in 2,011 and 2,012. I remember when you started off as just the production manager at this one location. And now your executive vice president over all these operations, and I said, I've got this really cool model called the Operational Priorities Accelerator, which, by the way, big thing is to name stuff, right? So we call it the opa.
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Greg Schinkel: and then what we're trying to do is have a conversation now. And, by the way, I gotta tell you, you know you're on to something, because whenever you try these ideas, who knows whether anyone wants to buy them or not? But when you put it out there, and somebody that you haven't met with, says I want to meet you tomorrow or next Tuesday.
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Greg Schinkel: and then I've been, and the other thing, Jane, that I think we get like we have to figure all this out before we have these discussions. And I said, Look, this is a prototype which was true. It's only like 2 or 3 weeks old. In fact, when I presented, I say I don't even know what all the services are that will surround this model. I just need you to tell me whether the model itself makes sense.
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and they not. Only are they saying Yes.
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Greg Schinkel: like I've had. I probably 6 or 8 high value meetings just in the last 2 weeks by being bold enough to reach out. Not with that sleazy linkedin, hey? We just met, and I want to sell you up for something. But just I got an idea, and I think it would be cool, because
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Greg Schinkel: it basically takes all those things you're trying to achieve as a senior executive, and gets a traction all the way down to the front line, and I just thought you might be interested in it, and i'm telling you. They're on it, and they want to meet right away.
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Jane Atkinson: and that's the other thing to be prepared for. So some of the meetings now, they said, the model is awesome.
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Greg Schinkel: I want to know when you got these 9 steps that we're going to follow, and I go great well when I have them, which will be the next 4 to 6 weeks. I'll come back to you. But remember, we're going to co-create this thing together right? Because if you're not the kind of company that wants to create something right now. I'll wait for 18 months till we have it perfected.
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But just remember that you'll miss out on 18 months of operating results. Improvements. Now, if that's okay.
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Greg Schinkel: No, I'm. I'm standing very salesy when I say that. But I just what it you know. If you're a tried and true, you only want to buy it when it's absolutely locked down and perfected. Then i'll just make a note and talk to you in a year.
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Greg Schinkel: But if you want to move the needle in your third quarter results, then we should probably talk sooner.
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Greg Schinkel: right, because otherwise you will have what every organization has, and that's organizational drift. And you're either going to jump on the success line today, or you're going to have to use heroic measures 9 months from now to close the gap between what you could have achieved and what you need to achieve now. So just ask yourself how quick you want to move forward with that.
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Jane Atkinson: So number one, really making sure that you're naming things like what you're offering. People has value built into the name. The name, the name should almost say like when I say operational priorities. Accelerator. There's not much to misunderstand there, right? You have some stuff you're trying to get done, and you want to move faster.
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Jane Atkinson: That rings a little dance? Sullivan asked. And I like oh, I think there's some Dan influence in there, Greg and good. We have a process called Ready, a launch which has kept us on track
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Jane Atkinson: for my entire career since the moment I wrote Book Number one, the first version of the wealthy speaker.
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Jane Atkinson: I ready, and it used to be ready. I'm fired, and we changed it to ready and launch. and I I gotta tell you that K. Has kept us on track. So name everything.
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Jane Atkinson: and really be thinking about whether or not you can circle back to your clients. And I like the way you're doing it.
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Jane Atkinson: because not only when you get there, buy in on developing something new, it feels collaborative. They have some ownership in it now, and they're telling people that they participated in. Maybe you can continue them, and
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Greg Schinkel: there's so many things that can spin off from that which just one quick note, Jane, that in addition, yeah, you both, you and I are in strategic coach, which again i'm a slow learner. It's taken me 4 years to finally put into action a few of these ideas. So that's part of the evolution. Right? Is that the the few years of transformation is of also being part of that program.
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Greg Schinkel: But the other thing I want to mention, and people can just look it up and and watch some Youtube videos. There's there's a guy out of Australia named Simon Bowen, B. O. W. E. N. And he has a program called the Models Method. Now I know that people some people actually will have heard of it.
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and you can get lots of this free stuff on Youtube and things. I I actually paid the money for my wife and I to sit through this course. And now I'm going to get my general manager and my curriculum designer, because
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Greg Schinkel: I I I now see it the senior level. They don't want to just hear words and see bullet points. They want to see pictures of models, and so to the extent that you can create a diagram.
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Greg Schinkel: and of course there's a whole science behind it, and even talks about there being a choreography to it which I love, because that almost says like it's dance, and what it is is you're You're taking people through a series of steps, and it's like You're simulating, sketching something on a napkin in a bar, a restaurant which we would have done years ago, and that people say, I want to buy that
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Jane Atkinson: that's so cool, and what I want to say to everybody is one of the ways that Greg does. This is on his ipad with the the ipad pro with the pencil.
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Jane Atkinson: gets his framework up on the screen, and then he starts to like he's drawing on a napkin for them. He starts to walk them through it.
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Greg Schinkel: and so I think it's really important. If you're watching on Youtube, I'm going to hold it up. Because if you check out the video, I just wanted people to see what you're talking about. So first is, you know i'll talk about the product roadmap right? And then, but I can sketch on that in real time.
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Jane Atkinson: We are watching on the podcast. It's everything looks beautiful. It looks organized. It's different colors, and really take the time like that's where to spend some money in your businesses on graphics, especially if these graphics are used in your selling process.
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Jane Atkinson: You don't want to scrimp on that. You did for me something that was kind of like you were on a napkin, and it was a little bit cruder, and I thought that was great, too. So yeah. So again, if you're seeing the video. A model might look like that to start with, which is really just a an empty shell, and then you could color it and add it.
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Jane Atkinson: There's 3 circles that intersect when Greg walks you through it. He's using his highlighter and coloring in backgrounds and things not to perfection, but just enough from so people can get it. And I think that that's really cool.
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Jane Atkinson: having a visual, that you can walk people through when you're trying to affect change like this is very, very helpful. I will say to people that it's changed a lot of things in our business to the point where i'm equipping. Now the team with these tools, because
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Greg Schinkel: I see that it elevates even the impact meetings that we have at the end of a project which again is new, where we actually meet with the customer, to tell them all the good things that happen during the project, and to talk about recommendations for next steps, some of which, by the way, they can do on their own without us, and some that require them to buy some more from us.
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And we're doing project launch meetings at the front end to clarify what the executives are going to do to support the project.
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Greg Schinkel: And what we're seeing is, that's where we've elevated our pricing as a result of that, because price has to at least keep up with value. And I gotta tell people just so that they know if you start using even rudimentary tools like this which you could design in Powerpoint to start with, and then you could
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spend some money on a graphic artist, which isn't that much money to get it to look even better
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Greg Schinkel: once you put it in individual people, then can a They absorb it faster, and they'll write on it. They'll they'll be interested in it. I would just say that it's accelerated the sales process dramatically.
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Greg Schinkel: and when I say dramatically, instead of it, taking weeks, or even months, to get a deal put together like next steps next week next steps like as soon as i'm available.
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Greg Schinkel: And now I've got one client where they say, I want to bring all the Presidents of the operating divisions together to meet you at one time, instead of you having to meet with every one of them one on one, because we're hearing such buzz about this model that you've created. They all want to do it right now.
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Greg Schinkel: And I say, Well, that's a terrible problem.
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Jane Atkinson: I love that. Okay. So there's so many things done back here.
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Jane Atkinson: You are a mostly keynoteer which your situation. Greg is runs training operation, and most, by the way, most of the training is now done by other people which I love, and I have a feeling that 10 years ago you might not have been able to see the vision for, anyway. That's another story.
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Jane Atkinson: Here's the other thing he names the next steps call so
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Jane Atkinson: rather than calling it. Let's have a post-mortem, or you know lots of people it's an impact meeting, because it's about impact. Lots of people call it nothing. Let's just follow up and have a call. A project. Wrap up. Meeting is not very in in invigorating
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Jane Atkinson: or in tasting. Now you have kind of more of a framework. So why don't you call it the maximizing value from your investment meeting? I mean, that would probably get them to be excited. Right? So you know you've made this investment. Let's let's have we're gonna have a call at the end on how you can extract the maximum. Are we'll call it our Roi meeting.
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I call it something.
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Greg Schinkel: Here's the other thing i'd say for for us.
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Greg Schinkel: We we all tend to frame things from our own perspective. It's like. I even have these tiny little things with my team, although i'm trying not to be a a meddler and a and a perfectionist. But like when we're sending meeting requests, don't say with so and so client, because that shows up in their calendar with their own name that has nothing to do with it. It's like if it's me and somebody else. It's them and Shinkle leadership. Transformation discussion
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Greg Schinkel: like that's what the calendar entry. That's a that's a. That's a touch point. And and even if you put it in the description, we're gonna be discussing how to accelerate your operational performance through investing in the leadership training of your team. That's what we're doing in this discussion. This is value added, because you know what neither one of us can avoid
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Greg Schinkel: can can waste any time at what we're doing.
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Jane Atkinson: Maximize your investment meeting. You know you're much less likely because you can see the value rate in the title of the meeting, and I love that. That is a master's level tip, and you have heard it right here on the well, I Why not? Even if you had a bureau, or or talking to somebody about a keynote.
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Greg Schinkel: One of the things that I do in our process is, I have a keynote to transformation discussion with you. Which is, it's one thing for me to talk to your audience for 45 min or 60 min and and
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Greg Schinkel: but one of the things that we are serious about is the ideas that are in that keynote. Can each be broken apart and accelerated throughout your organization because it's not enough to get one or 2 takeaways from a from a and a laugh and a tier that's not enough value.
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Greg Schinkel: Now, that being, said Jane, I do believe that our the center of everything we do is not logic. It's emotion. So I know that pretty much Everybody who's, you know, worth listening to on stage already knows how to make emotional connections. My question to everybody is, how are you going to make emotional connections out of the logical and business concepts that are in there.
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Greg Schinkel: and if you can start to do that, you start to move people, and it's a great question like if I can move the emotional state of some of your people around some of these concepts that you're trying to move forward in your transformation in your business. What kind of benefit does that bring to you from a from a financial standpoint.
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Jane Atkinson: and you know what I know. It's asking a lot for my 60 min talk. But that's how serious. I am about helping your organization achieve its goals
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Jane Atkinson: that there are times when I've talked to decision makers where they have said what we need in this opening slot is this.
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Jane Atkinson: and they just want a Of course, Of course they want to pump up the crowd, and they want some high energy and humor and blah blah, blah! And so just know we we're not saying that that's not needed
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Greg Schinkel: what what the the entire success of your meeting is, how Well, it's opened and closed right the entire success, all the other content pieces, all the executive presentations, all the other speakers you have on content
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are going to deliver valuable pieces of information that will get your your the people in your audience to change some of their thinking, and ultimately their behavior. But none of that happens if we don't create this environment right off the bat. So so honestly, if you look at
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myself with our track record versus some of the other options you have available to you, and you got to ask yourself. You know what difference does $2,500 make if you're already spending a quarter 1 million dollars on this meeting.
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Greg Schinkel: and and honestly, that one that you're gonna spend different on me because i'm at 10,000 instead of the other person is at 7,500. Honestly, that's that's that's pocket change, and, as you know, they're spending more on the on the coffee than they are on that. And I just say, look, if you could invest 1%
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Greg Schinkel: of what's already a quarter 1 million dollar spend for you. and that unlocks another. I don't know 2 and a half 1 million dollars of behavior, change and results in your organization. What is that really worth? Now? People should understand. I'm making all this up on the fly, and yet I sound so confident in it.
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Greg Schinkel: The who wouldn't want to at least accept the possibility that it could be true.
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Greg Schinkel: and if no one else is going to have that discussion, who's going to win the business? Because even if I think he's full of crop, you know, and he's just charging 10 grand for what we could buy 7. It's enough for them to go. I'll pay the 3,000 just to have the option of maybe that coming true.
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Greg Schinkel: right? So anyway, I'm getting carried away. Jane, i'm really fired up, and I love it. And what I want to note
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Jane Atkinson: is that you? Of course you and I Ha! Ha! What was the what was the date, can you remember, remember, or the year that we first worked together? It was either 2,004 or 5, and I had just downsized the business because we had been insolvent, and we had to reinvent ourselves
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Jane Atkinson: 20 almost 20 years ago.
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Jane Atkinson: Your confidence
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Jane Atkinson: You're no longer second guessing your decision. So you're figuring out what really gets results for your clients.
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Jane Atkinson: All of that is kind of oozing through this podcast here today, and had we had an interview 20 years ago. it wasn't there, and I just want people to understand that these things. Take time.
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Greg Schinkel: If you think you're confident before you've done something. All that is is enthusiasm. The only way you can become confident is to try something, and then prove to yourself that you've got it, and once you've got it here's the thing I do see a lot of people. They don't own it after they should. I've already accepted that they have it
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Greg Schinkel: like you know, we talk imposter syndrome and all those other labels. But really, honestly, why don't you believe your track record. and and why not go forward with a little bit of certainty? Now
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Greg Schinkel: I don't want people fake. You could argue you fake it till you make it Honestly, it just people can tell the difference between genuine confidence like we got this. This is this is a game changer. We're going to move it forward versus Well, I think it might work
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Jane Atkinson: Okay, whether or not we're feeling personally great or not. Let's put all of our confidence in the in the process, in ready to launch, because guess what we know. It works right, the track record of doing it
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Jane Atkinson: and over again. And so, even if your confidence is in your content, in your materials that's gonna shine through in confidence for yourself and Jane. You know that every once in a while there's gonna be somebody that buys something from you, and they just feel like well, it wasn't as impactful as I thought it would be.
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Greg Schinkel: And you know I had a meeting like that with the client in Mexico, where we had trained them in Spanish, and and I and I just had to confront him, I said, this is just not acceptable. We can't have done 6 months of monthly training sessions, and you say you haven't seen anything, and it turned into a confrontation with them about, I think actually, the problem is you now, that sounds very abrupt and rough.
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Greg Schinkel: And so people should understand that I took a more compassionate view of it. But I startled them when I said, the problem is, your people are scared of you, and that's why they're not allowing their leadership to shine, and then we turned it into. He needs to become more of a coach
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Greg Schinkel: and less of a director or or and and you know what he he went from. I'm never going to buy any more training from you, even though we'd already trained 80 other people for their North American division, and he went to. I think we're definitely gonna have another conversation about this. I said, Yes, you've got a homework assignment. You need to stop answering all the questions of your people
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Greg Schinkel: and and do this. So I would say that even someone who takes your school, if they ultimately didn't get enough value. My guess is is isn't because of the process, because the process has worked so many times, and you know it works 80 to 90% of the time. So if it doesn't work, it's maybe you shouldn't.
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Greg Schinkel: I just think we have to be bold enough and do it in a friendly, a a direct way. But compassionate is. It's just surprising to hear someone say it doesn't work, because we know it works.
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Greg Schinkel: So.
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Jane Atkinson: you know, unless something was very off in the process. We've got to confront what really might be the problem here. And I actually have developed another process, for when people are which allows us to dive deep on mindset. To dive
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Jane Atkinson: on is the marketing working, and also on. Have you taken a lot of consistent action which is really
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Jane Atkinson: comes down to? So I think this is so interesting.
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Greg Schinkel: But you should know that when you have these high level conversations they aren't even asking whether i'm going to be involved because they're at the Senior Executive level. They're not involved. So you know what my job is to keep them on track. And I say, look, we have a mutual accountability here.
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Greg Schinkel: I'm gonna lay out a series of steps that if you agree to move forward we're gonna hold you accountable to those, and you're gonna hold us accountable together. We're gonna stay on this success line to achieve your full potential. But if any of us deviate from that, we're gonna call each other on it in a very no nonsense and supportive way.
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And so I just need to make sure that you know what you're signing up for? Because if you say you're committed to transformation, this is not something that you're going to delegate to somebody 3 layers down. You and I are going to talk about whether we're on the path or not, and if we're not, we're going to make sure that we get back on the path, because no one wants to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars
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Jane Atkinson: on something that doesn't yield the results that you're looking for.
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Greg Schinkel: Think that? Oh, no, they want me. It it can only be me.
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Jane Atkinson: comes back to the confidence in your systems and your value, and your processes
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Jane Atkinson: have in the training. So I love that you how many trainers do you have on the right now? We have 8, and we deliver in French, English, and Spanish. We do it virtually on demand and in person.
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Greg Schinkel: But, Jane, that I know that at first in this business you have to Brown branded around yourself, and I went through the same iteration. So, please, if you're listening going. But I was told that has to be me and all this stuff.
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Greg Schinkel: It needs to be you, because initially, you are the delivery device. But you have to start describing what you actually do beyond your identity as a human being. Because what, if not that everyone wants to build a mega business, I will tell you, though it's not as scary as you think. I think many of us think
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Greg Schinkel: you know when you, when you get these bigger contracts. You're going to be all stressed out and working too many days. I work less days now than I ever did before. because I have a team that delivers on it, and we charge enough to pay those people to take care of things. So I don't sweat about workbooks and travel, and all this other stuff. There's people for that. The value that you're bringing is your expertise, your intellectual property, your proven systems a little bit on your delivery.
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Greg Schinkel: But really it's it's people are to is in love with your delivery, as you think that they are. What they're in love with is the value and the results that are created by your delivery. So remember that you could package that delivery and find other people who just love to speak. But they're not great at selling, and you could go on to
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Greg Schinkel: disconnect yourself from having to do all the work yourself. But at first you have to prove the model yourself. So I was on the road delivering training, and then I realized I don't want to deliver 180 days of training. That's absurd.
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Greg Schinkel: And then I found other people could deliver it as well or better than me, which is also an interesting insight, like if you see somebody else deliver your talk better than you. I'll tell you what, and if you know you're making thousands of dollars, while that person's delivering it, it's a whole level of enlightenment and awakening.
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Jane Atkinson: Oh, that's so so good! I I love that, and and please know, listeners, this is a long journey.
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Greg Schinkel: everybody this isn't for everybody, and and 20 years ago Greg could not. I was stressed out, burnt out. My health was awful. I would say that I made sacrifices for my family, my marriage that we're not good choices. And now jam. The other thing i'd say to people is people might might wonder how this guy is in his mid 50 S.
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Greg Schinkel: He sounds more excited about his business now, and I will tell people I am more excited about the next 10 years in this business than the first 31 years, and the reason for that is, I now see that we could really
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Greg Schinkel: this. This will sound so, cliche. I think we can change the world.
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Greg Schinkel: and I mean, like from an employer employee standpoint. And we're working on something that's gonna so if you do take Jane's advice and connect with me on linkedin. You're gonna see some interesting things over the next several months
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Greg Schinkel: that if you thought this is kind of mind blowing this discussion, we're gonna we're gonna take this to a level that no one can comprehend. And I do have a vision that no one will ever have to work for a bad supervisor again in the world.
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Greg Schinkel: Now that's going to be a multi-generational thing, it'll be beyond my lifetime. But we are going to work steadily, at making sure no one has to go. Well, you know, half my bosses were good and half were bad. Right? We want to make 100% of leaders good to work for, and we're going to not stop until we achieve that mission.
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Jane Atkinson: I just think that is it. It's
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Jane Atkinson: it. It's very noble in the cause, and I think everybody's had a crappy boss before and can. It's probably out there are plotting you, but to your point, so people should know when you takes Jane's advice, whether it's through a school or through a one on one's
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Greg Schinkel: know that you'll start with that value proposition. What's your promise? And you know. I I just got to tell you You don't get it right right from the beginning, and and it's an evolving thing. So be okay with it, because we used to be the number one choice for Hr. Professionals in manufacturing for training supervisors.
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Greg Schinkel: And we're evolving it to be the number one choice for linking strong and effective leadership skills to best ever operating performance right? And and now you're starting to make you're writing bigger checks, you know, by making a statement like that. But if you could able to cache those checks.
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Greg Schinkel: it's just a game changing mode, because now you're not going to be like oh, I don't know if we want to spend a $1,000 a day on this course for this person. It's like, what
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Greg Schinkel: right we're talking about millions of dollars of impact.
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Greg Schinkel: and I can't believe that you'd even be insulted by the fact that the course costs a $1,000 per person. That's too low.
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Greg Schinkel: Guys, If you can even get close to this. I know some of you are like going this guy's like on on something. I'm not really on something, but just know that if you could even just harness a smidge of that.
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Greg Schinkel: just just think how transformative it could be to your business. We're all playing too safe.
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Greg Schinkel: too low on the value chain. And honestly, there's just so much to do whether you want to sell 10 of these things a year, or you want to sell a 1,000 of them a year Guys, You gotta just just accept that. There's more that you could do to deliver value.
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Jane Atkinson: Greg, watching your evolution has been a trip. and I am so excited for you, and the confidence that you're bringing to the table, and all of the
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Jane Atkinson: E, even in the past little bit, you know, evolving your products and what you have. Tell everybody how they should be in touch with you. And I think Linkedin is probably the way to go right if you search Greg Shinkle on linkedin there's not too many of us out there. There's a guy that runs a meat market. That's not me. So it's. It's the guy who does leadership training
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connect with me on Linkedin and and Jane. There's 2 things that I think people should keep in mind.
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Greg Schinkel: You can probably tell that we're pretty good at selling what we sell, and we have a very narrow nation in operations right now. So if you've got client projects, i'd love to partner with you on that. A. So i'm looking for collaborations.
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Greg Schinkel: And the other thing is I am looking for instructors. But, please, all I would ask is that if you know that this would be a reach to work for someone like me and deliver at this high level. Then wait till you're ready. But when you're ready, or if you have some time on your calendar, but you know manufacturing operations, you're you're quite confident and quite an experience presenter.
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Greg Schinkel: Then Jane has sent me a few other people over the years, and they've turned into rock stars with me, so i'm happy to have those conversations. But please don't be a fake until you make it. When you reach out to me you gotta be really sure that you can deliver at this level, and then i'd love to have that discussion
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Jane Atkinson: to work in the training, and I do have to say Greg
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Greg Schinkel: is paying well, so we pay well because we expect a lot. And and I would also say, Jane, unique development.com which will be, I think, in the show notes. Unique development.com is our main website, and, like everybody, our website is now quickly going to become outdated. But that's okay, because it's going to be exciting in this evolution.
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Jane Atkinson: Super. All right, Greg Shangle S. H. I. N. K. E. L. I check it out on check them out on Linkedin. Thank you again, Greg. For your time. I absolutely adored this up to date, conversation, circle back.
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Jane Atkinson: and see some of the I I'd be very curious to know your feedback to see You're any difference in Greg. I know I did. All right, everybody with that. We'll say, See, you see we all these speakers by for now.
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Jane Atkinson: Well welcome everyone to the wealthy speaker, Podcast. We're through your tuning into us today, and we have Greg Shankel back to talk about being a high value. High impact Speaker: Welcome back to the show, Greg
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Greg Schinkel: Jane. It's a pleasure. It's nice to be invited back, you know. The first time is always a fluke, and when you come back enough times it feels special.
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Jane Atkinson: That's nice, and we don't have a jacket for you of any kind of like they do on snl. I'm so free. But we do certainly appreciate you. Now, if anybody would like to check out some previous, we actually had
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Jane Atkinson: at least one podcast that the topic was getting to a 1 million dollars, which I think people might want to go back and check out. So go to Speaker launcher.com
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Jane Atkinson: click on the podcast, and there is a search button there. You want Greg Shenko. So, Greg lots. We've been documenting your business, and I've been watching. I've had a bird's eye view of the evolution. You and I are in the same city. We meet not as frequently post Covid as we used to, but we make
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Jane Atkinson: a few times a year for breakfast, and I get to catch up. And last time we met I thought, okay, we need to talk about some of this stuff on the podcast, because I think it's really helpful to other people.
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Greg Schinkel: Talk about your evolution like what's changed. Say in the last 2 to 3 years.
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Greg Schinkel: shook the shook the snow globe up. Pretty good for everybody, I think, in this business, and and and and we scrambled like everybody did, to go on the virtual, but really actually a couple of things have been evolving for us. We've always been trying to think about. First of all, we want to be positioned
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from a price and value standpoint, to be at the middle to upper end of the spectrum, for what people might be willing to pay for leadership training. So we we primarily our businesses, training supervisors and manufacturing on how to be effective supervisors and team leaders, and we have some really big companies that have signed on with us.
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but the issue that's always nodded us, and it really came to light, even on even some very recent conversations is just this issue. Of
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Greg Schinkel: what difference, even if we make them a better leader? And the quality of their conversations and interactions goes up. What does it mean for the actual performance of the business?
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Greg Schinkel: And even if I go back a year ago we had done this really massive project for this big company where we had trained several 100 people.
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Greg Schinkel: and then they got acquired by this other company, also in the construction material space, but privately held, and I went to Atlanta, and I pitched the senior team, and there was a question that they asked me which is stuck with me ever since then they Basically, said.
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Greg Schinkel: How much can you tell us as to whether your training will actually improve our financial and operational performance? And I didn't really have a a great question but what i'd asked them before that, as I said, you guys have so many operations, probably hundreds of locations where you have like either really tiny
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locations that are run by kind of one or 2 people. And then you've got some really large facilities that have, you know, dozens or hundreds of employees. And I said, let me ask you this
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Greg Schinkel: when you, when you think, because these are the senior operations, executives and the Cfo. And I said, in your opinion, is there any difference between the quality of the leader
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Greg Schinkel: and the performance of the business? Right? And they said, Yes, and I said so later, when they challenged me, I said, Well, I gotta tell you the same thing you just told me is, you've noticed that generally the businesses that perform better have leaders who behave better or or differently.
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Greg Schinkel: and it does beg the question why we tolerate such a wide range of leadership capabilities when we know it's affecting the bottom line, but I still didn't have that linkage.
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Greg Schinkel: But it was gnawing on me for this last year. So of course this is all to me. You know, people should know this is 31 years where I've really only made any serious money in this business for the last 10 years.
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and
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Greg Schinkel: and it's not just about making money. It's about adding value. So my biggest quest right now is it's all about value like, and and I know that if you're somebody starting out in the industry and you're hustling for gigs, you think it's all about transactions, and I gotta tell you what the customers are craving is transformation.
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and they're craving it now more than ever, because what Covid did is it really did, I think, shake people up into realizing that they weren't going to go through the same motions that they'd always done out of habit, and they're now more susceptible
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Greg Schinkel: to people who want to actually affect change, because I think we're all looking for deeper meaning. That's why we also I I don't know about you, Jane. I'm more easily aggravated today than I have been at any time in my life, and i'm a pretty easy going person.
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Greg Schinkel: so i'm like going. Why am I getting so aggravated? And it's because my tolerance, for what I see is non-value, added Bs is at an all time low, and by the way, including with customers.
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So the old Greg would have been like, oh, sure, you want to buy some training. Absolutely. Here's what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, look at us, Aren't. We let's 5 5 each other right, and it's like
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Greg Schinkel: now. It's like No.
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Greg Schinkel: i'm not. I don't want to just sell training. We either make a difference, or we shouldn't work together, and I think what that does. Now people again who who listen, who are like in the sales training and that sort of thing will recognize that as being a bit of a what we would call the challenger sales approach, which is Don't. Just be an order taker. Who's who's filling a box? Because as soon as you do that your commodity, even if you think you're special, remember to the customer.
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Greg Schinkel: I know when people inquire with us, they're like, yeah, we're looking at training with you guys and a couple of others. and I immediately want to break that frame of reference. Because just so, you know, if you're just looking for training. Please buy from the other guys right? And but if you're looking to make a difference, then please let's continue this conversation, because and then what clearly happens, Jane, in these discussions, especially lately.
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Jane Atkinson: is that it immediately puts us into the category of one. Thank you, Joe Kavanaugh. Here I think he gives you credit. You give him credit, but it's like as soon as you challenge someone
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Greg Schinkel: in a way that no one, no other person they're speaking to is going to do that, but get real really quickly. I just think you have the opportunity to drive really high value, and therefore high results.
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Jane Atkinson: and the first rule of negotiation which at the beginning of a sales comp. You know conversation. You're not exactly there yet
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Jane Atkinson: is to be detached from the outcome.
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Jane Atkinson: and with this kind of more nonchalant approach, but at the same time, because you want to effect change, and I think
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Jane Atkinson: that, and that's one of Joe's who wrote the book, by the way, called becoming a category of one Joe's, One of his first pieces of information to the client was, I don't actually know if i'm. So let's just have a conversation.
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Jane Atkinson: And so he immediately detaches from the outcome like you're detaching from the outcome.
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Jane Atkinson: and you're in a much stronger position forward, because if you don't get the business, you are not going to be crushed.
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Jane Atkinson: And you know, I think also what you talked about in there for bureau's is something to think about, too.
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Jane Atkinson: Do you want to be an order taker and a commodity? Or do you really want to dive deeply into. Why, your clients want this in the first place, and I I think that it's easy to
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Jane Atkinson: yeah you. You raise a good point, which you know in our case we don't because we're not at this point doing a lot of keynotes. But I might actually come back to that, Jane. The advice you gave me way back in 22,004 and 5 might resurrect itself, because I might be interested in doing higher end keynotes in manufacturing conferences with senior level decision makers
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whether it's at a high fee or not. But it's like I, just because it. Those are Those are my new people. I used to believe that the Hr. Crowd was my people, and they still love us. But now it's it's the senior operating people that i'm finding
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a and just to give people hope. I gotta tie this back to your bureau comment eventually, but I just find that anyone who's an intermediary. So in our case an intermediary might be an Hr person in the case of a speaker selling a keynote. It might be a bureau, so you're already sort of disconnected from the end client in a way at first, at least, because
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you know, in my case the Hr person doesn't have a budget. Usually it's like it's they're just been sent sent on a shopping excursion to find someone we call them the scouts. Now, some of those scouts actually do have buying authority, which is fine, but a lot of times the person making the decision. It would be somebody that we would have never even met.
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Greg Schinkel: But I think that if the
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Greg Schinkel: understand, I guess, as a speaker, and this is me not having bureau, so i'm i'm sticking my neck out here.
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Greg Schinkel: The bureau's job is to is to make their client happy. Right? But also, if a Bureau doesn't have them as an exclusive, they may also be competing against other options that that client has. It depends again whether the bureau's been given that piece of business to place or not.
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Greg Schinkel: But then, if I was a speaker, I I now have to recognize that I have to add value to the bureau while they're adding value to their client, and I need to share with them that look. We have something that I think goes beyond.
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Greg Schinkel: Yes, the client wants a speech, and quite frankly, you're looking at across the category of all these innovation speakers, or you know futurists or sales or leaders fill in the blank. By the way, if anyone feels extra special, just type in what you speak about, and just see how many other hundreds of people come up, and then you'd realize at that point you're a commodity. So then, the question is, how are you going to break through the commodity both in the Bureau's perception, but also in the bureau, and how their position with their customer. So if I go, look, there's tons of people that you could hire in the in the price span that you're looking for.
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Who could probably deliver this keynote, which is interesting just to say that, like, I say to people who are looking for leadership training, I bet if you look at enough of our websites, you'd say, all the bullets look the same cause. They do.
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Greg Schinkel: We all are teaching communications, motivation, retention, talent, conflict, blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah. So that is actually not the issue here. The issue here is: who is going to surround those bullet points with the right process that actually delivers value to the customer. Just ask yourself, Mr. Mrs. Bureau
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Greg Schinkel: representative. What if that client said? Not only was it good value for the fee that we paid the keynote, but the amount of impact that they had on the organization, and their willingness to actually go deeper into what the real issues were and what the real solutions were
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Greg Schinkel: was game changing for us. And so the fact that I want to position you as a bureau as being seen as a game changing partner to this end customer.
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And now. By the way, friends, if you're going, he is spinning such a line of Bs right now. I just need you to understand that you don't always have to connect exactly a to B
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Greg Schinkel: to be seen in a different way from a perception standpoint. because most people are too afraid to even talk about it the fact that you're willing to even understand that the client is trying to affect a change in their organization through this event, at which you will be the speaker, and you're either going to be a catalyst for that change and help drive the results from it.
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or you're just gonna be another flu fluff on the ocean of of neat stories and insights. And so my suggestion for everybody is.
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Greg Schinkel: even if it's a bold step forward. Try to see what you will do even to try to move the agenda forward from the clients perspective, even to ask about what the agenda is, and even to to to even be so bold as to say that you're going to to impact that in some way.
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Jane Atkinson: I think that's really important. Think about moving from a commodity where you are filling a slot in a conference
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Jane Atkinson: to some sort of transformational advantage that you can offer up your client, and and that is going to be. I'm wondering, Greg. This is just an idea I just thought of for you.
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Jane Atkinson: If you want to bring back the idea of the keynote as the rain Maker. And what if you?
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Jane Atkinson: What if you took your book of business that you have right now.
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Jane Atkinson: and only looked backward and worked on the people that you already have, because you have some new offerings, now that you
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Greg Schinkel: I have 2 years ago, for sure.
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Greg Schinkel: or or Jane, or and, by the way, so so you're right. From a commodity which I was called from transactions to transformation, or what we're showing on our product roadmap now to customers is from training to transformation, right? Because
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we can sell you training and and training is certainly where people start with us, no matter what. And and by the way, Seldom does anyone want to step in and sign a 1 million dollar contract. So we're very open ended. Let's start with one project with one group in one location, and then our pricing is all very variable, anyway, so that they can buy as much as they want right? So i'm never again. Just like you say I don't really.
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Greg Schinkel: I mean, I hope, that people buy from us. But i'm not desperate in any way. But then, if you go back, if you go back to your comment.
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Greg Schinkel: This is so. We we always sold a a wide menu, and and many of your audience members probably have a fairly wide menu of potential things that they could either deliver, you know, and they probably have delivered little bits and pieces of them to different clients and different projects. But what we did recently that started to change the conversation is, we did put it on a product roadmap.
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and so in one page visual. Now we can show that, you know. Here's the Here's the things we could do to help you solve an immediate organizational issue that will, you know, at least fix what you're trying to fix right now. But I want you to see that there's a bigger picture in the in the future which is transformation.
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and that is, if you want an organization that people love working for, that drives results in value like never before.
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Greg Schinkel: Once we prove ourselves on this little, that little, this. This is Pilot Project that you have then just know that we have this.
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Greg Schinkel: Now, Jane, to your point. We have, like hundreds of people in our database, and many of them I, in fact, I took over my business from my dad, who just turned 91 is writing his memoirs, by the way.
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and and you'll remember that when you and I first worked together it was kind of still surrounding I'd been running the business on my own, but having still stumbling around finding my lane.
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Greg Schinkel: But I I will. I will say this, that we've tended to be a love them, and leave them type of sales organization which is, oh, love, you sign the contract. We work with them sometimes for 3 or 4 years, and then you know what happens.
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Greg Schinkel: The regime changes. This key decision. Makers move on, and suddenly the people who loved you aren't there anymore, and they've gone on to the next thing, the next Leadership Training company. The next person who speaks on that or the next book that they bought at the airport, bookstore
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Greg Schinkel: mit ctl. And so what I've done recently is, I've gone back to some of the senior executives who I've run into over the years, who I probably never even stayed in touch with, and just on linkedin. I'm sending them a note that says one. you know. Hey? I remember we did this project with you back in 2,011 and 2,012. I remember when you started off as just the production manager at this one location. And now your executive vice president over all these operations, and I said, I've got this really cool model called the Operational Priorities Accelerator, which, by the way, big thing is to name stuff, right? So we call it the opa.
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Greg Schinkel: and then what we're trying to do is have a conversation now. And, by the way, I gotta tell you, you know you're on to something, because whenever you try these ideas, who knows whether anyone wants to buy them or not? But when you put it out there, and somebody that you haven't met with, says I want to meet you tomorrow or next Tuesday.
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Greg Schinkel: and then I've been, and the other thing, Jane, that I think we get like we have to figure all this out before we have these discussions. And I said, Look, this is a prototype which was true. It's only like 2 or 3 weeks old. In fact, when I presented, I say I don't even know what all the services are that will surround this model. I just need you to tell me whether the model itself makes sense.
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and they not. Only are they saying Yes.
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Greg Schinkel: like I've had. I probably 6 or 8 high value meetings just in the last 2 weeks by being bold enough to reach out. Not with that sleazy linkedin, hey? We just met, and I want to sell you up for something. But just I got an idea, and I think it would be cool, because
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Greg Schinkel: it basically takes all those things you're trying to achieve as a senior executive, and gets a traction all the way down to the front line, and I just thought you might be interested in it, and i'm telling you. They're on it, and they want to meet right away.
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Jane Atkinson: and that's the other thing to be prepared for. So some of the meetings now, they said, the model is awesome.
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Greg Schinkel: I want to know when you got these 9 steps that we're going to follow, and I go great well when I have them, which will be the next 4 to 6 weeks. I'll come back to you. But remember, we're going to co-create this thing together right? Because if you're not the kind of company that wants to create something right now. I'll wait for 18 months till we have it perfected.
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But just remember that you'll miss out on 18 months of operating results. Improvements. Now, if that's okay.
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Greg Schinkel: No, I'm. I'm standing very salesy when I say that. But I just what it you know. If you're a tried and true, you only want to buy it when it's absolutely locked down and perfected. Then i'll just make a note and talk to you in a year.
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Greg Schinkel: But if you want to move the needle in your third quarter results, then we should probably talk sooner.
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Greg Schinkel: right, because otherwise you will have what every organization has, and that's organizational drift. And you're either going to jump on the success line today, or you're going to have to use heroic measures 9 months from now to close the gap between what you could have achieved and what you need to achieve now. So just ask yourself how quick you want to move forward with that.
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Jane Atkinson: So number one, really making sure that you're naming things like what you're offering. People has value built into the name. The name, the name should almost say like when I say operational priorities. Accelerator. There's not much to misunderstand there, right? You have some stuff you're trying to get done, and you want to move faster.
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Jane Atkinson: That rings a little dance? Sullivan asked. And I like oh, I think there's some Dan influence in there, Greg and good. We have a process called Ready, a launch which has kept us on track
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Jane Atkinson: for my entire career since the moment I wrote Book Number one, the first version of the wealthy speaker.
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Jane Atkinson: I ready, and it used to be ready. I'm fired, and we changed it to ready and launch. and I I gotta tell you that K. Has kept us on track. So name everything.
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Jane Atkinson: and really be thinking about whether or not you can circle back to your clients. And I like the way you're doing it.
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Jane Atkinson: because not only when you get there, buy in on developing something new, it feels collaborative. They have some ownership in it now, and they're telling people that they participated in. Maybe you can continue them, and
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Greg Schinkel: there's so many things that can spin off from that which just one quick note, Jane, that in addition, yeah, you both, you and I are in strategic coach, which again i'm a slow learner. It's taken me 4 years to finally put into action a few of these ideas. So that's part of the evolution. Right? Is that the the few years of transformation is of also being part of that program.
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Greg Schinkel: But the other thing I want to mention, and people can just look it up and and watch some Youtube videos. There's there's a guy out of Australia named Simon Bowen, B. O. W. E. N. And he has a program called the Models Method. Now I know that people some people actually will have heard of it.
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and you can get lots of this free stuff on Youtube and things. I I actually paid the money for my wife and I to sit through this course. And now I'm going to get my general manager and my curriculum designer, because
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Greg Schinkel: I I I now see it the senior level. They don't want to just hear words and see bullet points. They want to see pictures of models, and so to the extent that you can create a diagram.
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Greg Schinkel: and of course there's a whole science behind it, and even talks about there being a choreography to it which I love, because that almost says like it's dance, and what it is is you're You're taking people through a series of steps, and it's like You're simulating, sketching something on a napkin in a bar, a restaurant which we would have done years ago, and that people say, I want to buy that
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Jane Atkinson: that's so cool, and what I want to say to everybody is one of the ways that Greg does. This is on his ipad with the the ipad pro with the pencil.
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Jane Atkinson: gets his framework up on the screen, and then he starts to like he's drawing on a napkin for them. He starts to walk them through it.
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Greg Schinkel: and so I think it's really important. If you're watching on Youtube, I'm going to hold it up. Because if you check out the video, I just wanted people to see what you're talking about. So first is, you know i'll talk about the product roadmap right? And then, but I can sketch on that in real time.
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Jane Atkinson: We are watching on the podcast. It's everything looks beautiful. It looks organized. It's different colors, and really take the time like that's where to spend some money in your businesses on graphics, especially if these graphics are used in your selling process.
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Jane Atkinson: You don't want to scrimp on that. You did for me something that was kind of like you were on a napkin, and it was a little bit cruder, and I thought that was great, too. So yeah. So again, if you're seeing the video. A model might look like that to start with, which is really just a an empty shell, and then you could color it and add it.
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Jane Atkinson: There's 3 circles that intersect when Greg walks you through it. He's using his highlighter and coloring in backgrounds and things not to perfection, but just enough from so people can get it. And I think that that's really cool.
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Jane Atkinson: having a visual, that you can walk people through when you're trying to affect change like this is very, very helpful. I will say to people that it's changed a lot of things in our business to the point where i'm equipping. Now the team with these tools, because
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Greg Schinkel: I see that it elevates even the impact meetings that we have at the end of a project which again is new, where we actually meet with the customer, to tell them all the good things that happen during the project, and to talk about recommendations for next steps, some of which, by the way, they can do on their own without us, and some that require them to buy some more from us.
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And we're doing project launch meetings at the front end to clarify what the executives are going to do to support the project.
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Greg Schinkel: And what we're seeing is, that's where we've elevated our pricing as a result of that, because price has to at least keep up with value. And I gotta tell people just so that they know if you start using even rudimentary tools like this which you could design in Powerpoint to start with, and then you could
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spend some money on a graphic artist, which isn't that much money to get it to look even better
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Greg Schinkel: once you put it in individual people, then can a They absorb it faster, and they'll write on it. They'll they'll be interested in it. I would just say that it's accelerated the sales process dramatically.
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Greg Schinkel: and when I say dramatically, instead of it, taking weeks, or even months, to get a deal put together like next steps next week next steps like as soon as i'm available.
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Greg Schinkel: And now I've got one client where they say, I want to bring all the Presidents of the operating divisions together to meet you at one time, instead of you having to meet with every one of them one on one, because we're hearing such buzz about this model that you've created. They all want to do it right now.
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Greg Schinkel: And I say, Well, that's a terrible problem.
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Jane Atkinson: I love that. Okay. So there's so many things done back here.
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Jane Atkinson: You are a mostly keynoteer which your situation. Greg is runs training operation, and most, by the way, most of the training is now done by other people which I love, and I have a feeling that 10 years ago you might not have been able to see the vision for, anyway. That's another story.
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Jane Atkinson: Here's the other thing he names the next steps call so
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Jane Atkinson: rather than calling it. Let's have a post-mortem, or you know lots of people it's an impact meeting, because it's about impact. Lots of people call it nothing. Let's just follow up and have a call. A project. Wrap up. Meeting is not very in in invigorating
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Jane Atkinson: or in tasting. Now you have kind of more of a framework. So why don't you call it the maximizing value from your investment meeting? I mean, that would probably get them to be excited. Right? So you know you've made this investment. Let's let's have we're gonna have a call at the end on how you can extract the maximum. Are we'll call it our Roi meeting.
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I call it something.
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Greg Schinkel: Here's the other thing i'd say for for us.
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Greg Schinkel: We we all tend to frame things from our own perspective. It's like. I even have these tiny little things with my team, although i'm trying not to be a a meddler and a and a perfectionist. But like when we're sending meeting requests, don't say with so and so client, because that shows up in their calendar with their own name that has nothing to do with it. It's like if it's me and somebody else. It's them and Shinkle leadership. Transformation discussion
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Greg Schinkel: like that's what the calendar entry. That's a that's a. That's a touch point. And and even if you put it in the description, we're gonna be discussing how to accelerate your operational performance through investing in the leadership training of your team. That's what we're doing in this discussion. This is value added, because you know what neither one of us can avoid
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Greg Schinkel: can can waste any time at what we're doing.
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Jane Atkinson: Maximize your investment meeting. You know you're much less likely because you can see the value rate in the title of the meeting, and I love that. That is a master's level tip, and you have heard it right here on the well, I Why not? Even if you had a bureau, or or talking to somebody about a keynote.
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Greg Schinkel: One of the things that I do in our process is, I have a keynote to transformation discussion with you. Which is, it's one thing for me to talk to your audience for 45 min or 60 min and and
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Greg Schinkel: but one of the things that we are serious about is the ideas that are in that keynote. Can each be broken apart and accelerated throughout your organization because it's not enough to get one or 2 takeaways from a from a and a laugh and a tier that's not enough value.
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Greg Schinkel: Now, that being, said Jane, I do believe that our the center of everything we do is not logic. It's emotion. So I know that pretty much Everybody who's, you know, worth listening to on stage already knows how to make emotional connections. My question to everybody is, how are you going to make emotional connections out of the logical and business concepts that are in there.
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Greg Schinkel: and if you can start to do that, you start to move people, and it's a great question like if I can move the emotional state of some of your people around some of these concepts that you're trying to move forward in your transformation in your business. What kind of benefit does that bring to you from a from a financial standpoint.
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Jane Atkinson: and you know what I know. It's asking a lot for my 60 min talk. But that's how serious. I am about helping your organization achieve its goals
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Jane Atkinson: that there are times when I've talked to decision makers where they have said what we need in this opening slot is this.
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Jane Atkinson: and they just want a Of course, Of course they want to pump up the crowd, and they want some high energy and humor and blah blah, blah! And so just know we we're not saying that that's not needed
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Greg Schinkel: what what the the entire success of your meeting is, how Well, it's opened and closed right the entire success, all the other content pieces, all the executive presentations, all the other speakers you have on content
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are going to deliver valuable pieces of information that will get your your the people in your audience to change some of their thinking, and ultimately their behavior. But none of that happens if we don't create this environment right off the bat. So so honestly, if you look at
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myself with our track record versus some of the other options you have available to you, and you got to ask yourself. You know what difference does $2,500 make if you're already spending a quarter 1 million dollars on this meeting.
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Greg Schinkel: and and honestly, that one that you're gonna spend different on me because i'm at 10,000 instead of the other person is at 7,500. Honestly, that's that's that's pocket change, and, as you know, they're spending more on the on the coffee than they are on that. And I just say, look, if you could invest 1%
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Greg Schinkel: of what's already a quarter 1 million dollar spend for you. and that unlocks another. I don't know 2 and a half 1 million dollars of behavior, change and results in your organization. What is that really worth? Now? People should understand. I'm making all this up on the fly, and yet I sound so confident in it.
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Greg Schinkel: The who wouldn't want to at least accept the possibility that it could be true.
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Greg Schinkel: and if no one else is going to have that discussion, who's going to win the business? Because even if I think he's full of crop, you know, and he's just charging 10 grand for what we could buy 7. It's enough for them to go. I'll pay the 3,000 just to have the option of maybe that coming true.
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Greg Schinkel: right? So anyway, I'm getting carried away. Jane, i'm really fired up, and I love it. And what I want to note
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Jane Atkinson: is that you? Of course you and I Ha! Ha! What was the what was the date, can you remember, remember, or the year that we first worked together? It was either 2,004 or 5, and I had just downsized the business because we had been insolvent, and we had to reinvent ourselves
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Jane Atkinson: 20 almost 20 years ago.
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Jane Atkinson: Your confidence
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Jane Atkinson: You're no longer second guessing your decision. So you're figuring out what really gets results for your clients.
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Jane Atkinson: All of that is kind of oozing through this podcast here today, and had we had an interview 20 years ago. it wasn't there, and I just want people to understand that these things. Take time.
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Greg Schinkel: If you think you're confident before you've done something. All that is is enthusiasm. The only way you can become confident is to try something, and then prove to yourself that you've got it, and once you've got it here's the thing I do see a lot of people. They don't own it after they should. I've already accepted that they have it
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Greg Schinkel: like you know, we talk imposter syndrome and all those other labels. But really, honestly, why don't you believe your track record. and and why not go forward with a little bit of certainty? Now
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Greg Schinkel: I don't want people fake. You could argue you fake it till you make it Honestly, it just people can tell the difference between genuine confidence like we got this. This is this is a game changer. We're going to move it forward versus Well, I think it might work
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Jane Atkinson: Okay, whether or not we're feeling personally great or not. Let's put all of our confidence in the in the process, in ready to launch, because guess what we know. It works right, the track record of doing it
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Jane Atkinson: and over again. And so, even if your confidence is in your content, in your materials that's gonna shine through in confidence for yourself and Jane. You know that every once in a while there's gonna be somebody that buys something from you, and they just feel like well, it wasn't as impactful as I thought it would be.
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Greg Schinkel: And you know I had a meeting like that with the client in Mexico, where we had trained them in Spanish, and and I and I just had to confront him, I said, this is just not acceptable. We can't have done 6 months of monthly training sessions, and you say you haven't seen anything, and it turned into a confrontation with them about, I think actually, the problem is you now, that sounds very abrupt and rough.
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Greg Schinkel: And so people should understand that I took a more compassionate view of it. But I startled them when I said, the problem is, your people are scared of you, and that's why they're not allowing their leadership to shine, and then we turned it into. He needs to become more of a coach
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Greg Schinkel: and less of a director or or and and you know what he he went from. I'm never going to buy any more training from you, even though we'd already trained 80 other people for their North American division, and he went to. I think we're definitely gonna have another conversation about this. I said, Yes, you've got a homework assignment. You need to stop answering all the questions of your people
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Greg Schinkel: and and do this. So I would say that even someone who takes your school, if they ultimately didn't get enough value. My guess is is isn't because of the process, because the process has worked so many times, and you know it works 80 to 90% of the time. So if it doesn't work, it's maybe you shouldn't.
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Greg Schinkel: I just think we have to be bold enough and do it in a friendly, a a direct way. But compassionate is. It's just surprising to hear someone say it doesn't work, because we know it works.
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Greg Schinkel: So.
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Jane Atkinson: you know, unless something was very off in the process. We've got to confront what really might be the problem here. And I actually have developed another process, for when people are which allows us to dive deep on mindset. To dive
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Jane Atkinson: on is the marketing working, and also on. Have you taken a lot of consistent action which is really
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Jane Atkinson: comes down to? So I think this is so interesting.
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Greg Schinkel: But you should know that when you have these high level conversations they aren't even asking whether i'm going to be involved because they're at the Senior Executive level. They're not involved. So you know what my job is to keep them on track. And I say, look, we have a mutual accountability here.
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Greg Schinkel: I'm gonna lay out a series of steps that if you agree to move forward we're gonna hold you accountable to those, and you're gonna hold us accountable together. We're gonna stay on this success line to achieve your full potential. But if any of us deviate from that, we're gonna call each other on it in a very no nonsense and supportive way.
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And so I just need to make sure that you know what you're signing up for? Because if you say you're committed to transformation, this is not something that you're going to delegate to somebody 3 layers down. You and I are going to talk about whether we're on the path or not, and if we're not, we're going to make sure that we get back on the path, because no one wants to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars
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Jane Atkinson: on something that doesn't yield the results that you're looking for.
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Greg Schinkel: Think that? Oh, no, they want me. It it can only be me.
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Jane Atkinson: comes back to the confidence in your systems and your value, and your processes
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Jane Atkinson: have in the training. So I love that you how many trainers do you have on the right now? We have 8, and we deliver in French, English, and Spanish. We do it virtually on demand and in person.
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Greg Schinkel: But, Jane, that I know that at first in this business you have to Brown branded around yourself, and I went through the same iteration. So, please, if you're listening going. But I was told that has to be me and all this stuff.
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Greg Schinkel: It needs to be you, because initially, you are the delivery device. But you have to start describing what you actually do beyond your identity as a human being. Because what, if not that everyone wants to build a mega business, I will tell you, though it's not as scary as you think. I think many of us think
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Greg Schinkel: you know when you, when you get these bigger contracts. You're going to be all stressed out and working too many days. I work less days now than I ever did before. because I have a team that delivers on it, and we charge enough to pay those people to take care of things. So I don't sweat about workbooks and travel, and all this other stuff. There's people for that. The value that you're bringing is your expertise, your intellectual property, your proven systems a little bit on your delivery.
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Greg Schinkel: But really it's it's people are to is in love with your delivery, as you think that they are. What they're in love with is the value and the results that are created by your delivery. So remember that you could package that delivery and find other people who just love to speak. But they're not great at selling, and you could go on to
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Greg Schinkel: disconnect yourself from having to do all the work yourself. But at first you have to prove the model yourself. So I was on the road delivering training, and then I realized I don't want to deliver 180 days of training. That's absurd.
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Greg Schinkel: And then I found other people could deliver it as well or better than me, which is also an interesting insight, like if you see somebody else deliver your talk better than you. I'll tell you what, and if you know you're making thousands of dollars, while that person's delivering it, it's a whole level of enlightenment and awakening.
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Jane Atkinson: Oh, that's so so good! I I love that, and and please know, listeners, this is a long journey.
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Greg Schinkel: everybody this isn't for everybody, and and 20 years ago Greg could not. I was stressed out, burnt out. My health was awful. I would say that I made sacrifices for my family, my marriage that we're not good choices. And now jam. The other thing i'd say to people is people might might wonder how this guy is in his mid 50 S.
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Greg Schinkel: He sounds more excited about his business now, and I will tell people I am more excited about the next 10 years in this business than the first 31 years, and the reason for that is, I now see that we could really
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Greg Schinkel: this. This will sound so, cliche. I think we can change the world.
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Greg Schinkel: and I mean, like from an employer employee standpoint. And we're working on something that's gonna so if you do take Jane's advice and connect with me on linkedin. You're gonna see some interesting things over the next several months
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Greg Schinkel: that if you thought this is kind of mind blowing this discussion, we're gonna we're gonna take this to a level that no one can comprehend. And I do have a vision that no one will ever have to work for a bad supervisor again in the world.
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Greg Schinkel: Now that's going to be a multi-generational thing, it'll be beyond my lifetime. But we are going to work steadily, at making sure no one has to go. Well, you know, half my bosses were good and half were bad. Right? We want to make 100% of leaders good to work for, and we're going to not stop until we achieve that mission.
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Jane Atkinson: I just think that is it. It's
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Jane Atkinson: it. It's very noble in the cause, and I think everybody's had a crappy boss before and can. It's probably out there are plotting you, but to your point, so people should know when you takes Jane's advice, whether it's through a school or through a one on one's
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Greg Schinkel: know that you'll start with that value proposition. What's your promise? And you know. I I just got to tell you You don't get it right right from the beginning, and and it's an evolving thing. So be okay with it, because we used to be the number one choice for Hr. Professionals in manufacturing for training supervisors.
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Greg Schinkel: And we're evolving it to be the number one choice for linking strong and effective leadership skills to best ever operating performance right? And and now you're starting to make you're writing bigger checks, you know, by making a statement like that. But if you could able to cache those checks.
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Greg Schinkel: it's just a game changing mode, because now you're not going to be like oh, I don't know if we want to spend a $1,000 a day on this course for this person. It's like, what
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Greg Schinkel: right we're talking about millions of dollars of impact.
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Greg Schinkel: and I can't believe that you'd even be insulted by the fact that the course costs a $1,000 per person. That's too low.
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Greg Schinkel: Guys, If you can even get close to this. I know some of you are like going this guy's like on on something. I'm not really on something, but just know that if you could even just harness a smidge of that.
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Greg Schinkel: just just think how transformative it could be to your business. We're all playing too safe.
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Greg Schinkel: too low on the value chain. And honestly, there's just so much to do whether you want to sell 10 of these things a year, or you want to sell a 1,000 of them a year Guys, You gotta just just accept that. There's more that you could do to deliver value.
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Jane Atkinson: Greg, watching your evolution has been a trip. and I am so excited for you, and the confidence that you're bringing to the table, and all of the
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Jane Atkinson: E, even in the past little bit, you know, evolving your products and what you have. Tell everybody how they should be in touch with you. And I think Linkedin is probably the way to go right if you search Greg Shinkle on linkedin there's not too many of us out there. There's a guy that runs a meat market. That's not me. So it's. It's the guy who does leadership training
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connect with me on Linkedin and and Jane. There's 2 things that I think people should keep in mind.
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Greg Schinkel: You can probably tell that we're pretty good at selling what we sell, and we have a very narrow nation in operations right now. So if you've got client projects, i'd love to partner with you on that. A. So i'm looking for collaborations.
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Greg Schinkel: And the other thing is I am looking for instructors. But, please, all I would ask is that if you know that this would be a reach to work for someone like me and deliver at this high level. Then wait till you're ready. But when you're ready, or if you have some time on your calendar, but you know manufacturing operations, you're you're quite confident and quite an experience presenter.
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Greg Schinkel: Then Jane has sent me a few other people over the years, and they've turned into rock stars with me, so i'm happy to have those conversations. But please don't be a fake until you make it. When you reach out to me you gotta be really sure that you can deliver at this level, and then i'd love to have that discussion
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Jane Atkinson: to work in the training, and I do have to say Greg
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Greg Schinkel: is paying well, so we pay well because we expect a lot. And and I would also say, Jane, unique development.com which will be, I think, in the show notes. Unique development.com is our main website, and, like everybody, our website is now quickly going to become outdated. But that's okay, because it's going to be exciting in this evolution.
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Jane Atkinson: Super. All right, Greg Shangle S. H. I. N. K. E. L. I check it out on check them out on Linkedin. Thank you again, Greg. For your time. I absolutely adored this up to date, conversation, circle back.
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Jane Atkinson: and see some of the I I'd be very curious to know your feedback to see You're any difference in Greg. I know I did. All right, everybody with that. We'll say, See, you see we all these speakers by for now.
Highlights you won’t want to miss:
- How COVID shook things up. [1:30]
- Connecting to your client. [7:30]
- From training to transformation. [12:30]
- Why visuals matter. [20:00]
- Naming your meetings. [24:00]
- These things take time. [30:00]
- It’s all about the value. [36:00]
Greg and his team deliver front-line leadership training to supervisors in manufacturing and distribution companies so they can improve productivity and maximize employee engagement and retention. He has authored or co-authored several leadership books and publishes a weekly Leader Feeder blog, video and podcast.
If you would like to hear some great strategies to help take you from good to great and up the impact and value you give to your clients, you simply can’t afford to miss this episode!
I hope you’ll listen and learn.
Links:
Greg’s website
YouTube video of Greg’s selling process
Greg’s past podcasts with Jane
Greg’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s LinkedIn profile
Jane’s coaching options
The Wealthy Speaker School
